Zuma Vs. Puzz Loop

Discussion in 'Indie Business' started by simonh, Jan 19, 2006.

  1. Stu

    Stu
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    Wow. I would be less surprised if you said, "are you telling me that the world isn't flat?"

    Yes Savant, "law" is arguable.

    The great cloning debate does not boil down to "law."

    "Law" has to be interpreted and applied in every legal case, sometimes easy, sometimes not. (What laws apply? Were the laws broken? Who broke them? How do we punish them? Is the law legal?) This is done by "arguing." The arguing is done by plaintiffs, defendents, LAWYERS, prosecutors, etc. The arguing is done in front of judges, jurors, etc. Then, the judges and jurors give their OPINIONS and the case is decided. From there, a case may be appealed where the arguing starts all over. This can go on for years and those paid to professionally argue (LAWYERS) make fortunes in the process.

    "Law" does not establish a razor thin line that divides right from wrong.
     
  2. Anthony Flack

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    And it's continually changing as circumstances change, too.
     
  3. Savant

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    Yeah, hey, there are those responses I was talking about...

    One quick note: What gave you the impression I was talking about lawyers/judges not being able to argue the law? I mean, seriously. You can stop capitalizing LAWYERS now since you're not even making a relevant point.
     
  4. Stu

    Stu
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    One quick response to your one quick note: Well I would ask you next just what you did mean by "law is not arguable" but you're right, any discussion that stems from that statement is absurd as the statement itself is absurd.

    "I always advocated a simple, non-enforcable policy of just trying to be reasonable." (Anthony Flack)

    Speaking of relevance this is the best we can do and it deserves to be repeated.
     
  5. Savant

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    I'm hating myself for writing this, but I said I wouldn't take it any further and I'm not going to. The responses so far are EXACTLY what I was expecting. It's amazing. Not discussing further. Move along.
     
  6. paulhuxt

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    interest in promoting cloning?

    It seems trying to establish "cloning" (not just "borrowing ideas here and to") as a normal/acceptable practice is interesting for:

    part 1: (those are quite irrelevant and harmless)

    - game designers having poor or few ideas, or just having fun with copying the games they like.

    - "parasites" nicely mentioned above in this thread by Chuzzle's "creator" (?).

    - "philosophers" who see cloning it as the perfect materialization of the "immateriality or un-protectability of ideas". Note: in philosophy it is NOT "common practice" to borrow the core ideas of another philosopher and re-write its works... they rather give credit of their sources.

    part 2: (those are more dangerous because they can use their dominant position to "set the rules"):

    - publishers having found a niche market and having substancial means to "port", "adapt" previous game mechanics of other games to this niche market... which seems economically sound.. on the short term.

    - retailers/portals that are ALSO publishers, and don't want to pay royalties to the cloned game's creators (this situation already occurs in hypermarket industry)

    The problem with these is that they tend to resemble to those of part 1, give echo to those of part 1, and ... while the niche tends to mixup with the other game industries, may really end up in the part 1 category.
    The more they try to justify themselves (strangely, they rarely admit that economic profit is their sole motivation, preferring to resort to hyprocrit reasons like artistic quality, or else), the more they look like those of part 1.

    More seriously, they tend to make things more difficult for innovating indies (if any), and for innovation in general:

    - As an independant developper, I would be very careful before submitting a game to a "serial-cloner" publisher.
    - But nevertheless, if a release a game by myself and if it makes a hit, it will take 3-6 months to these serial-cloners, to release an "enhanced" title (more graphics, more sounds, more movie stars, more movie licence, more production value,...?).




    This was just to point out what stakes hide behind "promoting cloning as acceptable practice", ..

    My conclusion is that there is ALSO and moreover actually a greater interest for the game design itself and the game designers as economic agents, in despising this pratice.

    This kind of "conflict between interests" already occured in history (eg with theater writers)... Sometimes it can even end with a formalized "rule" or "law", sometimes not, but the absence of rule is not a precondition for resigning.
     
  7. Anthony Flack

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    No it isn't. It's entirely predictable, because that's how things are. It's, you know, the obvious point to make.
    Well, all right then, I suppose.
     

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