Zuma Vs. Puzz Loop

Discussion in 'Indie Business' started by simonh, Jan 19, 2006.

  1. simonh

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    A recent article on Insert Credit, sheds some new light on the Puzz Loop/Zuma issue.

    OZA = Mitchell bossman Roy Ozaki, developers of Puzz Loop

    Legal proceedings on-going then. The battle in a different court is a reference to a DS version of Puzzloop that is coming soon.

    I wonder if the new Puzzloop will borrow elements of Zuma? That would make it interesting ;)

    Anyway, I'm sure this debate will go on and on...
     
  2. Bmc

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    you know, they would of never even though of releasing a downloading version of puzzloop if zuma wasn't a smash, they're just pissed because they couldn't cash in on it

    Zuma changed enough anyways I think, besides it's bascially centipeded with a color matching mechanic
     
  3. electronicStar

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    Muhahahaha is that supposed to be a joke?:rolleyes:

    Anyway I'm taking their side (although I'm not sure it's worth a lawsuit).
     
  4. Dominique Biesmans

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  5. Phil Steinmeyer

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    Hmm - tried RealArcade's PuzzLoop. Assuming that this is the same as the original arcade PuzzLoop, then I think PopCap *Should* be in the clear (though I certainly don't know Japanese law.

    While the core mechanic is the same, virtually everything else is different - theme, power-ups, levels, many of the mechanical details. Zuma's a much better game. I hope PopCap prevails - not just because I'm working with them, but also because if the PuzzLoop guys win, then pretty much every game out there is subject to lawsuit, because EVERY game builds to some extent on it's predecessors.
     
  6. impossible

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    Heh, like an American company in the Japanese court system would have any chance of winning. I could see American jurors ruling in favor of a Japanese company in many situations (although maybe not this one). I don't see Japanese jurors ruling in favor of anything American unless it would be blatantly wrong to do so(and even then...)
     
  7. steve bisson

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    I think this would be the perfect place to link to this message from the creative director at popcap about our first game and clones in general.

    http://forums.indiegamer.com/showpost.php?p=66089&postcount=20

    read the whole thread here

    http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?t=4774&highlight=clone+comfort

    Its funny how popcap make it sound like cloning a game from the past is not "stealing" compared to cloning a recent successfull tittle.

    IMHO its the same. If you see what is happening with puzzloops you will understand what i mean. Re-releasing their work is almost imposible now that zuma and zuma clones have saturated the market. They "took" something from the original creators and their original work too. Weither its money or business opportunities cloning games from the past can hurt businesses too.

    Don't get me wrong i am in favor of clones , our first game is a clone and many of our future ones will too ! as indie developers we more than often choose to work on stuff that is motivating for us and that is games based on a gameplay we loved. Who can spend weeks on "research and development" when you are struggling to make ends meet .

    I find it offensive that a japanese would say " you know Americans and their mentality " . [Removed inflammatory Remarks - Chris Evans] I dont think its the American mentality that will ruin they legal effort, its the mentality of the whole game business and thats perfectly fine.

    Back to clonning the way i see it is "best one wins" . So my vote is in Popcap's favor. I discovered the puzzloop gameplay thanks to them. I loved it , it was many moments of enjoyment for me that i would not have experienced otherwise. If the original creators want to sell as much games using that gameplay than they simply have to make a better game than zuma and destroy popcap's version just like popcap did for the original game.

    Its an honest competition towards excellence.

    EDIT : after playing puzzloop on realarcade i was not impressed at all. If they could not sell as much as they hoped well its propably more their fault. Popcap raised the bar and they did not understand that. [Removed inflammatory Remarks - Chris Evans].
     
    #7 steve bisson, Jan 19, 2006
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2006
  8. Dominique Biesmans

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    In fact, the downloadable Puzzloop was released before all the successful post Zuma clones like Luxor, Tumble Bugs, ... so at that point the 'saturation point' wasn't reached. In fact I t think it's debatable that they would have had more success if they would have released Puzzloop before Popcap had released Zuma.
     
  9. Chris Evans

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    Let's try not to make this a Japanese culture vs. American culture debate. Keep it clone related. :)
     
  10. Olivier

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    I thought that game concepts/mechanics couldn't be protected. What a disaster for us indies if such lawsuits succeed.
     
  11. sumner

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    You mean unlike this lawsuit? I think it's a little disappointing that Ozaki's motivation, based on this interview, has devolved into teaching the typically arrogant American company a lesson. :(
     
  12. paulhuxt

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    But did Popcap ever released a game that is NOT a 90% (at least) ripp off of another game? :confused:
     
  13. Savant

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    The key with PopCap is that they do it first. Then everyone copies them. PuzzLoop was right there for anyone to build a game on top of, but only PopCap did. That's why they're on top.
     
  14. sumner

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    If you don't mind someone questioning such a generalized statement, would you mind posting your list of each PopCap game and the corresponding "90% ripped off" game?
     
  15. Hiro_Antagonist

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    Umm. Very much yes? Have you played their games or looked at their library of offerings?

    -Hiro_Antagonist
     
  16. Fost

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    I don't have any problem at all with what popcap have done. It's impossible to patent a game design (rightly so), and so you can't really complain when someone takes your ideas and does good version of it with new artistic ip (sounds, graphics etc).

    If anyone in fact has a problem with that, then surely they have a problem with the fps obssesed mainstream and how they've exploited Wolfenstein 3D all these years :).

    We all have stood on the shoulders of giants - I often get email (mainly from younger customers who haven't seen the games that influenced us), who tell us how they thought Starscape was a really original idea - yet asteroids, UFO and star control have obviously had a huge impact on its design. We freely admit the influence, and hold those games in high esteem.

    The only thing that makes me give a slight flinch is when people say 'zuma clones', as I think that's doing a great disservice to original game designers.
     
  17. steve bisson

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    If they did not spend more money on marketing than actually producing games then maybe people would not try to surf their wave hehe free marketing for my next game ! i am in ! ;) just kidding.
     
    #17 steve bisson, Jan 19, 2006
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2006
  18. sumner

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    Absolutely agree there.
     
  19. Raptisoft

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    This is a ridiculous statement. Popcap, in making Zuma, filled a market niche that the makers of Puzzloop didn't bother to fill-- and wouldn't have bothered to fill except Zuma made a billion skillion dollars.

    Whereas the more brazen cloners around right now are PARASITES who look to someone who is doing well, meeting a demand, and immediately put out a little game with the EXACT same features as the original, in the hopes of drawing a little blood into their own stinking, fetid, vile, corpulent bellies.

    Don't compare Popcap's treatment of Puzzloop to some of our copatriots treatment of Bejewelled and, er, other titles beginning with C. Puzzloop dropped the ball, Zuma picked it up. Besides, Zuma is such an advancement over Puzzloop that it made Puzzloop obsolete. That happens. It's Galaga to Space Invaders.
     
  20. Sharpfish

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    Beginning with C?

    Oh you mean all those Columns clones ;)
     

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