WiiWare...

Discussion in 'Game Development (Technical)' started by Adrian Cummings, Oct 11, 2007.

  1. moose6912

    moose6912 New Member

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    I would love that to happen, but that would also mean that everybody also includes developers who think that this game would be great on the Wii with the Wii remote.

    I would prefer it if Nintendo stick to their present policy of practicing some form of quality control on the games released on their Wii console.
     
  2. vjvj

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    I'm not even sure why there is so much arguing going on in this thread. I think we can all generally agree that yes, Nintendo does need to apply a low-frequency filter to all the dev applications to weed out all the a_college_kid_00249 newbs with aspirations of making World of Warcraft: But Better Edition.

    But when a developer with an established track record ON THEIR PRIOR CONSOLES, NO LESS approaches them, that's when the low-frequency filters are supposed to go away and someone with a clue handles things from there. I can empathize with Adrian's initial reaction here and really feel he's been a victim of cluelessness and/or laziness. I wouldn't be surprised if things had gone differently had he encountered someone else at Nintendo.

    The lesson here I guess is to make sure you've got your ducks lined up when dealing with Nintendo, even the BS ones.

    P.S. I don't buy into the whole "improved quality" argument from Nintendo. There are plenty of crap games on all their systems, and Wii in particular has a lot of junk. Not to mention that the ubiquitousness of party games on that system is starting to rival that of WWII fps games on PC.

    *Runs to the copyright office*... SLAP A TITTIE: COPYRIGHT VJVJ!!! :)
     
  3. Bobuido

    Bobuido New Member

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    Too True - Seems anyone with_an_office can make a rubbish party game...or 100. They don't seem to need a brilliant concept and prototype. Just lots of money and an office.

    Stopping people from working in a virtual office is hardly quality control. That policy alone can't combat publishing rape sims. Clearly, "everyone" must have some rather bizarre extreme exceptions. Thanks for pointing that out. Can I have it more open but not 100% open? That would be nice.

    I'm not arguing for the removal of quality control_completely_. I'd just like to encourage smaller devs to make their mark on WiiWare. Reducing costs is a good incentive to start a project and / or business.
     
  4. Adrian Cummings

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    Personally I was mearly pointing out how the experienced among us that now 'choose' to work alone from a home office rather than a bonafide office might tackle such a problem with the platform holder(s).

    Like most things in life there us usually more than one way to tackle a problem and indeed if I should wish to continue on the WiiWare path there are other ways as there were before on GBC and GBA in my case, that can be implemented here perhaps - not sure just yet.

    It's not what you know rather more who you know in this type of instance.

    Bobuido makes valid and true points IMHO and it is not an office that will write good games, moreover it is talent, some cash and the spark to do it.

    This is nothing more than a red tape issue that can be overcome if the right variables are applied - tho 'unlikely' directly with Nintendo in my case now.

    Just for the record... I was and am referring only of course to just plain WiiWare (digital download) and not Wii disc based projects which is another story altogether.

    BTW: 'Slap A Tittie' sounds like an excellent idea for an adult Wii title! LOL :)
     
    #44 Adrian Cummings, Nov 23, 2007
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2007
  5. moose6912

    moose6912 New Member

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    Actually, that is rather true even in other examples. For example, a lot of my development related supplemental income come from people I know and I know people who are even more knowledgeable than me with regards to game development expertise, but do not earn more than me. Relationships play a very big role in the real world.
     
  6. Bobuido

    Bobuido New Member

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    I take it Nintendo are OK with rented shared offices?

    i.e. One building many offices

    Or is that not secure enough?

    Would we need our own building?

    How would they know it's secure? Do they come and check?

    What about if it was a house but nobody lived in it?

    What about a shed on an allotment?

    As you can see I kind of need specifics on this to work out how much extra it could potentially add to the project
     
  7. Adrian Cummings

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    I 'imagine' they would even expect you to have building and contents insurance cover on the place of business or some form of liability insurance (usually covers for millions) for a business.

    Don't know if they go that far (some do!) and I'm sure there are quite few peeps here with their Wii dev status already that can enlighten us all further on this point without breaking their Nintendo NDA.

    So just say you have already:
    Ltd. Company & VAT Reg No.
    An real office/room on it's own or in a building.
    2 or 3 people in it working and not picking their feet.
    Insurance cover for a few bob in case of crap happening!
    The cash wad to pay peeps, stay in business and buy the SDK/devkit.
    The mega project 'IDEA'.
    and finally the talent.

    Do you then get the status upgrade?

    Then perhaps your game flops on say just Wiiware before the initial 5000unit limit payout and you are quite well and truely done from behind LOL - sod that!

    I think they are indeed looking for the 'established' done all the above bit for some years before you apply type thing with some titles under your belt already shipped?... I have done much of this before of course but it won't help now I work from home again - they are not interested.

    For those that still doubt what I'm at least trying to make a decent point about... I am stating this from the point of WiiWare development 'only' which was 'supposed to be more open' than Wii disc BUT it is not and this is fact by the way Nintendo changed the apply for WiiWare links on the Warioworld site some months back (I saw it with my own eyes!) - now it's all just 'Wii' and no difference between either - even tho each require different business models up front in many respects i.e. one being smaller digital based content and one being larger disc based!

    What happened here is somebody higher up at NOA changed their minds methinks and some of us got locked out that might of got in before.

    Pah who cares anyway eh? when the risk is all ours and not theirs?

    And for those that think I'm a complete moron: you can find my name hopefully inside the Warioworld forum archives still to this day regarding by GBC and GBA questions (as a contractor mostly working from home with the real SDK and devkits woot!) to prove I used to be on the inside once! LOL
     
    #47 Adrian Cummings, Nov 23, 2007
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2007
  8. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Yes!

    But really, you just need to have the contacts to talk to people. We're currently developing for both DS and Wii. We have all the above items but have not been asked to prove any of it.

    I'm actually kinda surprised they have anyone reading the web form at all tbh, most companies don't ime. They want people that are enough "in" the trade already to know who to speak with.

    If you genuinely have a great prospect but don't know how to make contact, get an agent would be my advice. Trust me, Nintendo along with all other plaftform holders are awash with proposals already and surely don't need to solicit any more.
     
  9. Adrian Cummings

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    Thanks for your constructive input Applewood, the thing is I do have many good contacts already rather I was attempting to miss out the middleman here given I'm talking 'WiiWare' only.

    I have already had some minor offers but alas my path to market with Nintendo shall have to make use of yet another middleman for me to reach that goal - which in any business is always a shame really when really you don't need one given this part of the platform is not going to be 'that cool' anyway yeah!

    As dodgy as this sounds it not what you know as I said it's who you know and I know quite a few people of course from 20 years bashing in the industry.

    For now I guess I better leave it that, as for me I was attempting to make a point for others like myself wondering about just WiiWare itself and not so much for myself anymore.
     
    #49 Adrian Cummings, Nov 23, 2007
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2007
  10. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Do you know if WiiWare is viable anyway ?

    It just seems like a load of old shite tbh, not enough to make your average punter go surfing through it. It's even more jammed up with old crap than 360 is, but at least that has new stuff too.

    I'm sure you wouldn't make money off this even if all the dev kit and the publishing was completely free. I may be mistaken though, just a feeling.
     
  11. Adrian Cummings

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    I think you have truely hit that nail on the head and driven it all the way home there Applewood... from what I do know the payout rate per unit is good but the payout is on several thousand units shipping on WiiWare first before you get any revenue (hence I don't want that middleman on WiiWare at least!)... because as a pure business equation if a given game bombs for whatever reason the developer is going to get not a lot or even buggery at the worst case :)

    Not all WiiWare games are going to do well given the law of averages and hence my concern in the first place about a given author investing so many resources up front whilst NOA do not - it's a stupid idea for many!

    There will be some decent corkers on there from some good indies here I'm sure, but there will also be the dogfood releases to pack it out perhaps?... I had hoped to fall somewhere in the middle with an all new WiiWare version of Dweebs i.e. 'Dwiibs' - but it aint gonna happen so I continue on PC and Mobile that both have risks attached of course, but do not require me to invest so many resources from my small but very efficient business - that has taken me years to build and keep hold off btw!

    Anyway I am done here honest! - the debate and topic was most interesting and now some people can see why I had to delete some of my original posts given I had a live application to NOA happening at the time - I don't know 'who' reads this public part of the forum?

    Upwards an onwards and never stop to look back too long.

    I have moved on and have much work to do for the new year already so I must of been mad to even bring it up in the first place come to think of it :)

    Cheers to all those that understood what I was on about tho yeah!
     
    #51 Adrian Cummings, Nov 23, 2007
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2007
  12. Bobuido

    Bobuido New Member

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    It certainly has been very interesting

    I think the Wii is great - A good thing for gaming

    Even as gamer numbers grew, gaming was closed to a lot of people... or minds if you will

    My mother has some sort of technophobia - She would not Start>Shut-Down, it might break the PC, or blow up or something

    While she was babysitting her friends baby girl (two classic gamer minorities, female and the ancient :) They both got involved. I could not believe my eyes. Somehow swinging around a controller is not just more fun to a lot of people, it's a lot more approachable. The amount of Wiis sold will be phenomenal. This is what you paying so much money for. The biggest, most accessible, virtual shelf on the world.

    I_understand_it_is_a_gamble

    You have to weigh up all the factors

    Thing is sometimes it can be difficult to see if the gem you are sitting on has the mass appeal it needs to become, at the very least, profitable for your company

    My mother's friend, of the same age, bought a Wii for herself, though I doubt you'll ever see her get a 360 and start playing Halo 3 on Live

    I see hardcore and casual gamers united and adopting the Wii as a social hub

    A lot think it gimmicky but I think the Revolution was a suitable name for it

    A lot mocked it's route and thought it would be Game Cube

    Whether you'd rather be swinging or clicking you have to love that Nintendo are bringing in gamers, some lost, some new, and I think it's great

    Sounding like a proper mad fan boy so I'll just turn and run now
     
  13. Spore Man

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    You're confusing WiiWare with Virtual Console. WiiWare games are not even launched yet, therefore premature to judge. All they currently have on WiiWare is the internet browser ($5), Wii Vote (free), Check Mii Out Channel (free), and their experiment at marketing via Wii Ware the Metroid Preview channel (again free).

    PS: Dweebs is not the kind of game I'd like to play on Wii. Sorry.
     
    #53 Spore Man, Nov 23, 2007
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2007
  14. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Indeed, thanks for putting me straight on that one. So when is this due then ?

    Dwiibs is a great name for the target though :)
     
  15. Bobuido

    Bobuido New Member

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    Virtual Console is full of rubbish? :S

    I got

    Super Mario 3 (NES)
    Super Mario World (SNES)
    Mario Kart 64 (N64)

    Which I'm very pleased with

    Even the ones most would consider rubbish have a place in someone's heart

    I personally think the Virtual Console is a wonderful thing

    Wii Ware can only add value to my much loved Wii

    I'm sure I read they're going to release Puzz Loop...or at least a clone of - Nice!

    I don't imagine the fun will stop there either!
     
  16. Adrian Cummings

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    Of course that is just you speaking tho yes?, not the other few million potential consumers LOL :)

    I stated it was an all new version tho - as in 'suited to the Wii'.

    It matter's not anyway it's not going to happen.

    'Dwiibs' is a great idea there is no doubt in my mind of that at least.

    Least I tried eh?
     
    #56 Adrian Cummings, Nov 24, 2007
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2007
  17. Bobuido

    Bobuido New Member

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    I think this is an example for Nintendo. Their "impenetrable fortress" boss level needs to be a bit more forgiving. Just like I wish I could make Mega Man some stairs instead of them bloody disappearing, reappearing, platforms

    An experienced developer that has been a catalogue contributor in the past doesn't get to make a game for the Wii because he misses a check-box. That clearly, should not happen. Each proposal needs to be judged individually instead of passing through a list ticking machine. 20 Years ago I would agree that the office, a place to collaborate, was entirely necessary. Not today.

    How many genuine devs will end up in the same position?

    Does this site have polls? I'd be interested in seeing if anybody else feels strongly about this

    I thought WiiWare was to bring more developers in, not lock them out
     
  18. Spore Man

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    Nintendo work very closely with the devs in the program. They can only manage so many before spreading themselves too thin and affecting quality.
     
  19. Bobuido

    Bobuido New Member

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    Well I presume in order to create a regular, physical (disc) game then the requirements are even tighter and more expensive.

    Have you seen the Wii catalogue? It's jam packed full of crap. Nintendo don't worry about quality, no-one does. They worry about what sells! Otherwise there wouldn't be the usual bombardment of crappy movie IP games. Forgive me if I'm wrong (I haven't played it) but I can't imagine "High School the Musical 2" is going to a quality piece of software. Much more likely they're cashing in on children's silly fads. I'm not so old I don't remember what they're like. How many parents will pick up this instead of Galaxy? Sadly, probably quite a few.

    When Nintendo has a catalogue where 100% of the games are average <> good. Then come to me with Nintendo's "quality" excuse.

    That seal of approval never meant crap. Crap games are released to make money. Usually sold by a popular piece of IP. Transformers had the potential to be an excellent game. Did Nintendo make sure it was. Not IMO.
     
  20. Adrian Cummings

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    That's odd really then in itself as I can understand that from a Wii (Disc) angle but not really from a WiiWare one?... I thought Nintendo said they had no involvement in the dev cycle on WiiWare other than the obvious anti-porn, racism etc. screening you would expect on new WiiWare titles with the dev. doing 100% everything including age rating verification via ESRB?

    To quote "Reggie Fils-Aime" back in June:

    "Nintendo will not do any screening of ideas," he said. "The games have to pass our bug checking process, but that's the only screening that we're doing. The developer is responsible for getting an ESRB rating for their game, just as with our current publisher agreements. We don't allow AO-rated games on our systems."

    Me: I still reckon 100% they made some promises with WiiWare that they have had to pull back on, and that is why I have the problem I do now I guess.

    Oh well ner mind.
     

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