Ways to improve?

Discussion in 'Indie Basics' started by Omega, Aug 3, 2005.

  1. baegsi

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2004
    Messages:
    424
    Likes Received:
    0
    This shows again what I've experienced countless times: irony does not work with email or forum postings. At least not with strangers...
     
  2. Abscissa

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2004
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    0
    As with everything else in business, play to your strengths. Many times you can turn your weaknesses into strengths. If you can't make realistic-looking art and can't afford to buy it, then:

    1. Choose a type of game that isn't art-heavy.
    and/or
    2. (My Favorite) Go with an art style (likely a simplistic/minimalist style) that you can do reasonably well (or at least better than other styles), and make it a selling point.

    Platypus is a good example. (Disclaimer: I'm not trying to imply Anthony's a bad artist: I have no idea how much of an artist he is.) If someone can't do fancy space-shooter pixel art (again, I don't mean to assume Anthony can't), then maybe that person can do claymation. Or maybe lazery-wireframey art (Rez), or doodles (Vib Ribbon), or "rough cartoony" (Alien Hominid), or paper cutouts (South Park), etc.

    It's better to do an easy style well than a difficult style poorly.

    That's my suggestion anyway.

    I always thought that too :D. (I've seen that book you mentioned. I'll have to take a closer look sometime.)
     
    #22 Abscissa, Aug 3, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2005
  3. Robert Cummings

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for staying on topic Abscissa :)
     
  4. Abscissa

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2004
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh, heh, I guess that will tend to happen when I don't read most of the posts :D. Maybe I should start ignoring previous posts more often ;).
     
  5. ERoberts

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2004
    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    0
    soniCron: yeah, don't take it too seriously man. I don't want to add anyone to the ignore list (in fact, I think I'll add you to my buddy list :D)

    and about staying on topic... it's been a loooong time since this board was on topic :D But it seems to be what people here want, community and all that...
     
  6. princec

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    4,873
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah but I sneaked back after a bit... I had a bust up with Omega too once upon a time but I've got a short memory and can't remember what it was about :p

    Cas :)
     
  7. Screwball

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    0
    It was about how Beer should be cold not Warmed up.
     
  8. Anthony Flack

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    0
    ERoberts - this being the second time in as many days that you've suggested that this board and the people posting on it are worthless... why not do yourself and everybody else a favour?
     
  9. Omega

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Messages:
    265
    Likes Received:
    0
    Whatever it was about, it was for the better :) Admit it :)
     
  10. Sharkbait

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's a pity this thread doesn't have a more searchable subject name because it's a treasure trove of art-related links (excluding the art of occasional mud slinging!).
     
  11. ERoberts

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2004
    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh, come on, let me have my fun :) Since the board have now changed from a business resource based on the sharing of experience into this "community" forum based on sharing opinions, at least let me make use of what little entertainment value there is :) Don't worry though, I'll try and play nice...
     
  12. Omega

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Messages:
    265
    Likes Received:
    0
    My Thread!

    This is my thread, I allow ERoberts to bicker as he sees fit. New users might not realize that a lot of the people posting advice in every thread have no credentials. If ERoberts doesn't say it, who will?

    MORE MORE MORE MORE ART!
     
    #32 Omega, Aug 5, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2005
  13. Anthony Flack

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do you really think this forum has changed? Doesn't seem all that different to me. But what of credentials? Who has sufficient credentials?

    I think SoniCron works nicely as a provocateur in the princec mold. I'm not concerned with credentials myself, so long as the argument is well-reasoned.

    Despite your best efforts to assuage me, I'm still deeply offended! Well okay, no I'm not, but just for the record, I can paint and draw very well :), and good claymation is very fiddly and difficult work - I wouldn't recommend it as a soft alternative. However, I do believe that it can be faster than animating by hand if you know what you're doing. Well, maybe.

    But your point is a good one. You can turn a weakness into a strength if you're smart about it. However I do think you need a good artistic eye to pull this off. You don't necessarily have to be able to draw or model or do anything else well... but you need to have a feel for what works and what doesn't, otherwise your stylish primitivist art will instead come out looking like old bollocks. You still need to think carefully about your design; make sure it is consistent. And pick nice colours! I cannot emphasise enough how important that is. You can improve your art 100% with better-chosen colour.
     
    #33 Anthony Flack, Aug 5, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2005
  14. Ricardo C

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,349
    Likes Received:
    3
    Claymation as an "easy" alternative?

    I can't even begin to imagine how long it must take to get a single "clean" animation cycle from claymation. And if something happens to a model... Well, my equivalent of "Ctrl-Z" would become "trash room in a rage, then drink self into a stupor." :D
     
  15. Black Hydra

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good artwork in a game is largely a matter of style and coherence. A simple design utilized throughout a game can add charm.

    The worst thing a game can have is a bunch of different styles floating about. I've seen some games where people hired professional artists and the individual artwork looks good, however it looks mangled together and the result is crap.
     
  16. Escapee

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2005
    Messages:
    740
    Likes Received:
    0
    Wow , I have alot to learn from this thread .......
     
  17. BrutoMemo

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good game art independently of the style requires a minumum of art knowledge (colors, shape, proportions), and to improve art skills there is no shortcuts, just good references and a lot of practice :)

    my two cents
     
  18. Abscissa

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2004
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    0
    Heh heh. Well, I guess Platypus and claymation wasn't a good example after all ;). But like Anthony (thankfully ;) ) noticed, my real point was:

    Although, I guess he probably is right about needing an artistic eye to pull it off (In the specific case of artwork). (Although, I will say that I've seen a fair number of people with an artistic eye that didn't realize they had an artistic eye. Usually because of either perfectionism or identifying themself primarily as something else (ie. hidden talent))

    And then, my other point was just that it's better to do an easy thing well than a difficult thing poorly. (Which I guess still applies to claymation, but in a different way that I originally thought: Specifically, if you can't do claymation well, then don't do it in a commercial endeavor.)

    EDIT:
    In summary:
    1. Use a weakness as a strength, if you can.
    2. When creating a commercial product: If you can't do something well, don't do it at all.
    3. When creating a commercial product: It's better to do an easy thing well than a difficult thing poorly (Corollary of #2).
     
    #38 Abscissa, Aug 8, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2005
  19. Ska Software

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2005
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    0
    I didn't know anything about 3D until I took a class on Java3D. The only useful things I learned in that class was in the small part on JOGL (about matrices, state-based instructions, and such). I used this knowledge to learn Direct3D, which the class didn't touch with a ten foot pole.

    Moral: Take classes. Even if they suck, you still learn.

    Disclaimer: I am in no position to give anyone advice, ever. This is common knowledge.
     

Share This Page

  • About Indie Gamer

    When the original Dexterity Forums closed in 2004, Indie Gamer was born and a diverse community has grown out of a passion for creating great games. Here you will find over 10 years of in-depth discussion on game design, the business of game development, and marketing/sales. Indie Gamer also provides a friendly place to meet up with other Developers, Artists, Composers and Writers.
  • Buy us a beer!

    Indie Gamer is delicately held together by a single poor bastard who thankfully gets help from various community volunteers. If you frequent this site or have found value in something you've learned here, help keep the site running by donating a few dollars (for beer of course)!

    Sure, I'll Buy You a Beer