Tough period?

Discussion in 'Indie Related Chat' started by Jack Norton, Jul 30, 2004.

  1. PoV

    PoV
    Indie Author

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    I like Gilzu's comparison of indie's with small restaraunts and such. It's one of those fun little comments that reminds me why the Deterity/IndieGamer community atmosphere has grown on me.

    Speaking of recession and shooters, is it just me or is there a lot of 2D shooters out there in indie world (Done and in development)? I get the feeling that too many people are expecting the 2D shooter to be the easy money maker (previously the Match-3 game). But as an ex-hardcore gamer that used to love shooters (2D and 3D), the last thing I want to do is play one.

    I don't know how many gamers here are in the same boat, where you have no interest in playing anything that's not unique. After seeing all those shooters, with the exception of Starscape (that finally caught my attention after the advertising annoyed me to the point of checking it out), the only one that sparks any interest is Platypus. I've not actually tried it yet, but there's that "maybe later" sort of feeling whenever I see it (or Anthony Flack posting ;)). Cool art btw. :)

    This other *magical* ability of mine is I can play a demo of a game, and know everything I could ever want to know about the game, which sadly kills all interest in me ever actually buying the game (indie or commercial). So far I've only bought one indie game, that being Gish. Being a bit of a game physics nut I wanted to see it, and had there been a demo when I wanted to play, things may have been different. A great example of impulse buying. On the commercial end of things, Painkiller is a prime example where the demo lets you do too much. I probably wouldn't have bought it anyways, but I appreciate the demo. The stake gun and some of the clever use of Havok makes me smile. :).

    Alright, I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but I think my question is does anyone else think there are more than enough 2d shooters out there or being made?

    Also, I have my doubts about there being much of a market out there for 2D shooters. Platypus being a generally unique attractive looking game and Starscape with its add campaign seem to have something going for them, but I'd imagine they're not doing as glorious as the authors/publishers would hope. Anyone else see what I'm sayin', or have any thought why a so called inbetween hardcore and casual market would exist that wants to play shooters?
     
  2. Gmicek

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    Oh I do, I do, hehe. I've talked to a ton of people representing outlets ranging from CNN (online and TV) to CG Magazine, to a couple book authors. But I think I must not be good at giving good quotes because they haven't mentioned us, hehe. Seems like they usually end up doing some on casual games and get quotes from the Garage Games Big Book o' Quotes :) We keep trying though, because In the end we all win.
     
  3. Chris Evans

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    Haha, so true! I noticed too in every article on casual games, it seems there's always a quote from Garage Games.
     
  4. Reactor

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    I don't have a problem with any type of game, even if there are too many in the same genre. I just care about fun games- really fun games.
     
  5. Jack Norton

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    For once I agree with Wildsnake ;)

    If we continue to pay 79$ only to get game listed on download.com, if we offer games at ridiculous amount like 15% royalties on big portals, they're always gonna win and have an easy life.
    Probably lot of people once finish the game just want some quick cash. Their game maybe for some reason (like bugs, bad period, LUCK) sell bad the first 1-2-3 months and they suddenly start to look for publishers (it happened to me!).
    My game USM is an example: there was a well hidden bug (thanks to Blitzdebugger... erhm !) that I didn't figure out. Then when I sold only 4 copies in 2 months I started to panic, I put it on regnow to get more affiliates, asked lot of publishes, but LUCKILY no one accepted it :D
    It will be a year in september since I launched it. While isn't really a succesful game, I doubt that I would have got the same money if I put it on a portal with 15% royalties...
    Also putting it on my website www.winterwolves.com brought me quite a lot of visitors for searches like "soccer manager", "sports games", etc.
    I guess that some of my UBM sales where from people looking for a "sport game" and found UBM beside USM ;)

    That said, if a publisher offers me a reasonable royalty, I'm not gonna refuse it :D
     
  6. Gmicek

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    What about RPG's and strategy titles?

    Either way, It's very rare that I purchase a shooter because I can almost always get my shooter fix by just playing the demo. Is it a drag playing the same one or two levels all the time? Yeah, sometimes, but when I have several high quality ones to choose from, all of which give a decent demo experience, the push to purchase isn't as strong.
     
  7. Bluecat

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    Yes, and no.

    I was thinking more about the style of the site. Go have a look at Blues www.bluesnews.com It is a nice simple site with one main page so there is no navigating around to find things. Lots of links to sites that do reviews and contain other news, make it more of a hub for users to find things.

    Blues has been around for what must be ten years now. I used to use it and Gamespot for my daily fix of gaming info. Unfortunately, Gamespot changed a few years ago, became a lot less straight-forward and started charging for premium access (and made lots of stuff into premium content). I hardly go there anymore. I still visit Blues nearly every day.

    I reckon the success of the site is hard to ignore. Emulating it (not cloning it) and making the site for gamers and not so much developers might be worth looking at.
     
  8. Reactor

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    I visit Blues every day as well (it's my number one site for gaming news) but there's not much different between it and DIYGames, other than a extra coat of polish. Also, Blues updates all the time because it covers a whole host of other 'newsworthy' articles related to gaming, while most indie sites don't, because there isn't that much to point out.

    Someone else mentioned this earlier- a news site is something developers might like, but does the average casual gamer really care? Going by the few casual gamers I know, they wouldn't at all. Their mentality is...

    I have some spare time.
    I like old style games.
    Oh look! Some of these work on my computer.
    *they buy a game*

    Going to a news site and reading up on the happenings in the indie world (or gaming, on any level, for that matter) just isn't on their radar.
     
  9. Chris Evans

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    That's assuming all "Indie Games" == "Casual Games".

    That certainly is not the case though. If you actually look at all the games GameTunnel and DIY cover, casual games is just a subset not their entire coverage. In fact, if you look at DIY's front page right now, the news articles on casual games make up a very small percentage.

    I'm positive there's people out there, not just developers, who would like to read reviews on Indie games. At the very least, it'll save them time from having to download a ton of demos to find something decent. They can easily see what are the popular or recommended Indie games to download.

    I can't think of a single industry where consumers don't appreciate product reviews. Maybe for certain casual games that weigh in under 3MB, reading a review isn't such a big deal for those with broadband. But there are still a lot of Indie games that are over 5-10MB and a review could help someone decide whether to download the demo or not.

    As I mentioned before, Indie News sites are in their infancy that's why they haven't expanded too much outside the developer community. But the potential is there, especially as Indie games continue to become more diverse.
     
  10. Curiosoft

    Indie Author

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    I think your metaphor doesn't take into account the "consumption frequency" for the products you mention. People usually consume 3-5 meals a day. If they eat out for each of those meals, then yeah....a small burger joint has a chance....because the consumer wants variation...and there may not be a McDonalds/Franchise store nearby.

    The "consumption frequency" for games is a lot less. Therefore, the mom-n-pop equivalent is quite different. For most folks, they may consume 3 games each year...and so they are happy with going through a portal....because it's not something they have to actively consume each day.
    Because the frequency for game consumption is much lower, it makes it more challenging for indie companies to compete...because they are competing for the 3 purchases a consumer makes each year.

    When "Consumption Frequency" is very low ... like with cars (a person may buy 1 every four years)....then there are usually only big players in the market...because "Indie car makers" can't survive when they're waiting for a sale every 4 years.

    Later,
    Curiosoft
    (Formerly FinishIWannaBeA on the Dexterity forums)
     
  11. Gilzu

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    That's why I also mentioned electric products shops, Clothes and you can also add to that small Books, Music and Games stores which are all still alive even though there are networks like Virgin Megastores.
     
  12. Gilzu

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    Speaking of which, I've just recieved a peculiar mail from FileCart. They alwyas pumping up their advertisment services, but this got me left with more question signs then answers. Take a look:

    :confused:
     
  13. Sparky

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    If? If? WHEN! WHEN!

    Yeah, I know. It seems like we're in a very, very slow race against Duke Nukem Forever and Grimoire.
     
  14. Curiosoft

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    Quick question...

    Some folks here mention the need for an indie portal. My question is...how would such a thing be different than terragame.com?

    They have decent affiliate rates and have a lot of games spanning many different genres.

    Later,
    Curiosoft
    (Formerly FinishIWannaBeA)
     

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