Top tip for artists finding work with indies.

Discussion in 'Indie Basics' started by Fost, Jun 21, 2006.

  1. dmikesell

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    You're building a strawman argument here. Nobody is going to say that, but some of your better programmers may tend to be on the arrogant side. Playing nice doesn't always work, either. Been in too many environments where people are afraid to criticize/reprimand for fear they will hurt feelings or be the "bad guy". As a result, lousy work is not only done, it's tolerated and even encouraged (through lack of intervention).

    Hey, if Carmack wants to do my game for free, he can call me every name in the book. I'll even fetch his coffee :)
     
  2. princec

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    I wouldn't hire Carmack.

    Cas :)
     
  3. Savant

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    "Wouldn't" and "couldn't" are different words.
     
  4. princec

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    Pedantry won't earn you any friends.

    OK: If I were in a position to hire a games programmer, and Carmack popped his head in the the door, I wouldn't hire him. He's a clever chap but has a lackadaisical coding style and l33t genius attitude that would not endear him to most of the people he'd have to work with.

    This whole thread is pretty amazing to be honest. I had thought by age, hm, say about 21 or so most people understand some of the "subtle" aspects of "getting on with other people". Mind you there's always Big Brother to prove me wrong, although it is turning out quite fascinating this year because the denizens of the House are such utter freaks, retards and sociopaths.

    Cas :)
     
  5. dmikesell

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    Everyone "getting on" can be counterproductive, too. Buddies don't like to tell each other that their work needs improvement, or that they aren't cutting the mustard. I've seen it for fifteen years at several different companies.
     
  6. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    I hear what you're saying, but I don't really get it. If peers can't critique each others work, then that's a different problem. What I'm against is the more bullish attitude of "I'm better than you" which is how this thread started.
    The best guys know they're the best guys - speaking it out loud is just gonna piss off the "improvers". The best guys usually know that too - those that don't, I don't want em.
     
  7. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Heh, I must be getting old. All that swearing really is starting to do my head in. Lisa'll be out tomorrow, shortly followed by Nikki though, so it should be a lot better soon :)
     
  8. John Rush

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    I'm admittedly not an expert, but I fail to see how anybody outside of the company can know what they are talking about. You would need to know what the budget was for various parts of the project, what kind of internal conflicts arose through the development cycle, the original design document, external funding requirements, limitations with internal tools, etc.
    These factors have a large impact on what is ultimately released.
    It would illustrate to me a supreme lack of experience for an artist (or any other individual) to propose that they can do [fill in the blank] better when they have no idea what the constraints of the job are. You simply can't compare yourself to an unknown. State what you can do and back it up, but don't try to assess the failures of my project when you haven't been there.
     
  9. Christian

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    If you know your craft you should also know the problems that may arise, and since they have an impact on the result, and you can see the result, you can know the kind of problems they may have had and have them in mind when doing the critique.

    Im a graphic design freelance, and what i do is point out why a particular design decition is not good for the business of my client and give sugestions and ideas to make it better and the benefits of them, its a way of saying "i know my work and i can give you a boost to your business". Some people get it and feel good about that they have a profesional that knows more than them working for them, others just take the critique as an insult and just go their own way. Its like if someone doesnt want to take his medicine because he says "it tastes so bad, how come it is good for me?!?".
    (each case is special though, each client has special problems, still i belive that you can point out what things you can do better because you are talking about what you can do to help him).
     
  10. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    If you told me that at an interview, I'd certainly listen. There's a big difference between what you described and some newb mailing me out of the blue and telling me my art team are shite, though.

    I don't think anyone here is arguing against constructive critcism, it's more about tact in an initial contact, or the lack thereof.

    (PS. We don't actually have an art team but we are trying - there's a permie job posting in the for hire section)
     

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