The J Force Video Documentaries- Road to $100,000

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by J Fizzle, Jun 26, 2008.

  1. J Fizzle

    J Fizzle New Member

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    I'm terribly sorry for not answering your question. I will be sure to be more prompt in the future.

    First off, we have more than a person walking around. Just because I didn't show it in the scenes from next week doesn't mean we don't. You'll just have to stay tuned for episode 2 if you want to see it.

    Secondly- Jonny, and only Jonny, has been working on our prototype for about the last month, not the last 3.

    My ego is now boosted even more, if you could imagine that.

    My new personal goal with this project is to make you and Mr. Gustavsson (my two favorite haters) buy our game. Mark my words, it will happen.

    Now if you all will excuse me, I have a podcast interview to attend. :D
     
    #41 J Fizzle, Jun 29, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2008
  2. Mattias Gustavsson

    Original Member

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    I don't hate you :D I even find you guys entertaining, in some ways:rolleyes: I just don't think this is the right forum for this type of stuff (butI don't mind you posting at TIGSource).

    So what's the rest of you been doing? If that was my team, I'd worry about all the dead weight... :cool:
     
  3. Nexic

    Indie Author

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    So if you're a 'team' why is only one guy doing any work? Seems 4/5 of you are dead weight.
     
    #43 Nexic, Jun 29, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2008
  4. J Fizzle

    J Fizzle New Member

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    But it's brought me almost 300 hits to our site....I think it's the right forum...:)

    Well I've been studying a lot and working on our website. But we've been in sort of a stand-still the last few months, not really doing anything. Just waiting for Jonny to reach a comfortable level of competency in his programming ability (by finishing that XNA class and working on several different versions of our prototype). Now that he has, we're now really starting actual production with the whole team.

    And that "dead weight" is going to make our show much more entertaining. And in the end, that's all I'm tryna do here. Entertain.
     
  5. Desktop Gaming

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    What he said. You're making yourself look like a fool. It will reach a point where nobody is even reading your posts, let alone replying to them.

    So I guess you should revel in your "almost 300 hits" while it lasts. Because it won't.
     
  6. cliffski

    Moderator Original Member

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    Look, I wish you guys well, I'm a big supporter of enthusiastic indie teams. But get some perspective. If your coder is just learning to code now, you are way behind.
    I started programming games on my ZX81 in 1981. Thats 27 years ago, way before anyone on your team was conceived. And I'm not at all the most experienced coder on these forums.

    I would love to see you make the best indie game ever and do a better job than people who have been doing it this long, but you have to agree that the betting odds on that are in the tens of billions to one.

    The only reason I'm saying this, is that I don't want people like you to get your expectations up, burn out, then go become wage slaves for Activision or Sony. It is possible to make a hit indie game, but if you expect to achieve that with your first game, you are pretty d00med.
    Plus if you had 300 UNIQUE hits from people here, all of which downloaded your demo, and had a standard conversion rate and price, it would have earned you a mighty $60.
     
  7. Chris Evans

    Moderator Original Member

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    I don't know...

    ... I just don't feel the same outrage or contempt about their little endeavor as others in this thread.

    The arrogance and "Best Indie Game Ever!" is obviously tongue and cheek. The guy is obviously trying to drum up some attention for his project and team instead of being yet another anonymous indie company. Personally I won't be following the video episodes until the game is much farther along. But in general I think it would be a good thing if more indies could open up to the public, so players can really put a face to the games. No one reads boring blog development diaries except a few other developers. Doing quirky video episodes like this is a better way to reach players, IMO.

    That said, J Force has nothing to show at the moment and they're all newbies. So from our vantage point their prospects don't look all that great currently. But when I saw this topic and the original post, I thought it deserved a "Umm...good luck with that." or other polite but brief comment and move on. I'm surprised so many people here seem genuinely offended and upset.

    I'm with Cliff, I hope these guys keep some perspective so they can actually finish a game. It doesn't sound like they're trying to make the next WoW or highend FPS, so it doesn't seem they're totally in the clouds. The coder sounds painfully inexperienced but 5 years ago I had zero game programming experience as well. I had only done web programming/scripting. There's a lot of game RAD tools out there that can allow non-programmers to get up and running in a relatively short time.

    Besides, there's a lot of people on this board who have never released an indie game before (that's why we those indie tags). It's not like these guys are insulting other developer's work (like other jokers we've had in the past). The guy has actually remained pretty civil considering how everyone is hostile toward him. I think everyone should relax. Either they'll end up making something or we'll never hear from him again after a month from now. I say let time be the judge.
     
  8. AlexWeldon

    AlexWeldon New Member

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    If you had the money to cover the bet, I'd happily put a penny down at 10,000,000,000 : 1 on these guys producing the best selling indie game ever. Not at 10,000 : 1 mind you. Maybe an even million to one is more accurate. ;)
     
  9. Reactor

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    They could do it. All they have to is take screenshots from all their favourite games and...
     
  10. KNau

    Original Member

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    I know it feels good to wave your imaginary wad in the collective indiegamer faces but you have to understand that this is the purple neighborhood on the Monopoly board. There's a big old world outside these walls and no one on Park Ave is impressed (yet).

    I'm curious about the whopping $100,000 target. You realize that divided by 4 that's only $25,000 dollars each? That puts you in the realm of night manager at Taco Bell. I see that you're just starting out and it probably doesn't cost much to maintain that swanky bachelor pad but you might want to set your sights higher - being a genius and all.

    Good luck on the game - truthfully it doesn't look any worse than the crap that's selling on XBLA now. I'd talk down about the YouTube video but it's a brighter marketing stunt than I've seen from any indiegamer in...well...ever.
     
  11. Mattias Gustavsson

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    Because that was the whole point of this place, to be the forum where the business side of indie game making was the focus. There's plenty of communities out there for amateurs and hobbyists, and frankly they do that bit a lot better than indiegamer.

    So why should we make this place just another hobbyist community? What point would it serve?
     
  12. Reactor

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    I agree with Mattias. The real issue with these kinds of threads is that they're more about the developer's exposure than aiding the developent of indie games. Years back I thought this place would be pretty good as a hobbyist community, but I can now see the wisdom in keeping it as a serious crossroads for indie game developers, content providers, and people looking to learn from those successfully making it work.

    Some developers seem to think the indiegamer forums are the first port of call to advertising their personal projects, mainly because someone will comment on them. The forum is less of a place because of that.

    My two cents :)
     
  13. Chris Evans

    Moderator Original Member

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    Where exactly do you draw the line between "hobbyists" and "serious" indie?

    Is a serious indie someone who is developing their game full-time? That would exclude the great majority because many people here develop their indie games part-time between their day job or contract work.

    Is a serious indie only someone who has decades of game programming & Industry experience at AAA game companies? That would exclude people like Anthony Flak (Platypus, Cletus), Ryan Clark (Professor Fizzwizzle), and myself from participating on these forums. Besides as many can attest to, having years of retail game experience doesn't automatically translate into indie success. I see a lot of industry guys get lost endlessly in development by either obsessing over technology and constantly switching engines or wanting to create everything from scratch and thumbing their nose at RAD tools. The way I see it, industry vets have their own set of challenges to overcome just as newbies do when it comes to creating your first indie game.

    Is a serious indie only someone who is developing a casual game? If J Force were making a "Match 3" or "Time Management" clone would that make them more legit?

    Again, I think some of you are taking the video too seriously. If you strip away the video and the marketing hyperbole, it's just a group of inexperienced guys (which they acknowledge) trying to make a 2D shooter. How is that drastically different from some of the other posts that appear in the Feedback Request forum? Again, it's not like these guys are claiming to make a WoW killer MMO or AAA FPS. They're not belittling other indie developer's games. Sounds like this guy is trying to drum up some interest for his game/company while trying to motivate his team as well.

    As for the business side, marketing is part of the business. It seems a lot of people around here forget this (marketing just doesn't consist of the BigFish game submission form). So even if these guys never finish their game, from a marketing perspective it might be interesting to see if something like this (video episodes of developers) resonates at all with players.
     
  14. Mattias Gustavsson

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    I personally wouldn't use the term "serious", but rather "professional" or "business oriented", and that would mean those independent developers who are not making their games "for fun", but for profit. And it would mean that the posts here should be related to how to make money off indie games. (note that if indiegamer did focus on this, it would mean that I wouldn't get to post much, if at all, but I would have better stuff to read on here, so that's fine by me).

    In the end it would be a judgement call, which is why the moderators would need to be more active. But I think it is quite obvious that threads about upcoming Diablo 3, free FPS tech demo, and "Announcement: Video documentary marketing hype thingy" doesn't qualify (If, on the other hand, the J Force guys had posted something along the lines of "A couple of months ago, we released a video documentary (which some of you might have seen on other sites), and we'd like to share with you how successful it was in terms of driving traffic and boosting sales, and how we went about creating it", I would have no objection)
     
  15. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

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    I think what pisses some people (not me anyway, I find it funny) is the arrogant tone. In case you think he isn't, I recommend you read some of his first posts when came here. His arrogant tone went down as time passed and probably realized how hard is to just release even a 2d top shooter (or maybe he realized that getting a whole forum of devs against him was NOT a good marketing strategy), but what pisses off most people (like Nexic) is seeing someone be so arrogant knowing perfectly how hard is to make a topselling game nowadays...

    Also he can do all the marketing he wants and even be a genius on that, but if the game is crap, nobody will buy it anyway... seems everyone here is forgetting this little detail ! :eek:
     
  16. Nexic

    Indie Author

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    Jack hit the nail on the head. When this guy first came here I tried to give him advice that would actually help him be successful. I thought he might relate to my advice because I'm pretty much the same age. But from the looks of his video he just completely ignored most of what was said, and is now trying to insult those who attempted to help him in the outset.

    Now I see why people tend to move away from these boards once they become successful.
     
  17. Chris Evans

    Moderator Original Member

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    I was just going by this thread. I wasn't aware that he posted and asked for advice before.

    Still though... maybe I'm too laid back but this doesn't bother me that much. The VAST majority of indies barely make any money anyway, so is it really necessary to get all agitated that their first game probably won't make any money either if it ever gets made? It's up to them if they want to take our advice or not. Like I said time will tell.

    I've heard this a lot as far back as the Dexterity days. The truth is this board is mostly for up and comers. Those who are getting started in the indie business. It's pretty much always been that way, except for maybe the first couple of years. So naturally after you've released several games and become reasonably successfully, these board won't offer the same amount of value to you. Usually when you reach that phase you either decide to give back to the forums and lend your experiences or you move on. The former requires quite a bit of time so it's not surprising and it's understandable that many people move on. Also when you're in crunch mode it's hard to find time to post in forums. Until this month, I only made 5-6 posts this entire year. I wasn't disgusted with newbies, I just didn't have time to post. I also know the basic ins and outs, so I didn't have to ask a question every couple of days like I did a few years ago.
     
  18. Matt2East

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    Let's please not turn indiegamer into a hobbyist board. It doesn't matter whether you're making the game full time, part time, or how many shipped titles you have. I personally appreciate indiegamer because of the sense that people here have some idea of what they are doing.

    If I started seeing posts here like "hey, let's get some volunteers together and make a Naruto MMO" I will cringe. It's not being elitist, it's because I work on games to generate income and don't have time to mess around.

    IMO the J Force video is funny, albeit in a dumb fratboy way. It reminds me of all the doomed student projects I've seen, except more extreme and ridiculous because nobody's ever made a video like that before. Regardless of whether or not they make the game, it's one of the best laughs I've had all year. As long as they don't post more volunteer recruitment ads I've got no beef with them. At least they have a good looking website and a hit viral video, which is more than I've seen on any hobbyist boards. It's fine in small doses.

    However if much more of this stuff comes this way I WILL give up on indiegamer.
     
    #58 Matt2East, Jun 30, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2008
  19. Xymbiot3

    Xymbiot3 New Member

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    LIMBO TIME!
     
  20. Reactor

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Nice to see someone got it :p
     

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