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Discussion in 'Game Development (Technical)' started by Martoon, Feb 9, 2005.
@Dima: Cool! Look forward to chatting with you on the forums.
I get an error trying to join the furums.
No areas were found that matched your query
Any ideas Melv?
EDIT: nm, I was not signed in aparently... Going to try foguring out how to set this up with C++, I already have a game code that needs to be ported, if possible. I do alot of file access as well as all my game logic and physics are already done from C++ in Windows.. Hopefully I can port the game without too much hasstle, and that I wont have issues with Mac and Linux for binary file access (game replays) and other things.
2D Engine Comparison or T2D discussion
I thought this was about compiling a comparision about ALL 2D engines out there, not a discussion about T2D.
Just my .02, I've developed games in C++, BlitzPlus, BlitzMax and now in GameMaker. GameMaker allowed me to create a prototype in less than a week compared to the months of coding nights and weekend in Blitz.
My only concern is that GameMaker only supports DX rendering 8.0 and up.
I don't understand what is wrong with sharing my short experience with the T2D early adopter release. So it crashed, so what, and I was a little miffed. Wouldn't you be a little concerned if this engine everyone is praising left and right didn't even run on your system, beta or not? Other members have posted similar concerned comments, but I don't see them facing such harsh criticisms.
It's great and all that you've actually gone to the trouble of researching all 44 of my posts on this forum, but I don't need to go back very far to see that that every one of your posts on this thread is almost exclusively directed at me, whether it be a religious-like defense of T2D or a personal attack on my character. You also have a tendency to follow up your messages with some sort of suck up to other members of the board, in some sort of battle of moral superiority.
I didn't want to reply to your message right now - this forum is off-topic as it is, and I'm probably bending the rules. I apologize for that. But how could you expect me to sit here while you unfairly tarnish my meague indiegamer.com reputation just because I've chosen to remain "on the fence" with T2D. Just give it a rest, please. I believe my opinion is as valid as the next person's, whether I've shipped a game or not.
BTW - it's great to hear that T2D will eventually adopt a software renderer. I think that's key for those of us targetting older hardware. Heck, even my girlfriend's relatively new P3-1000 only has an 16 meg Trident video card in it.
bentlegen, in most cases in online forums it's best not to offer criticism unless it's asked for. It's too easy for others to in interpret that as an attack on them or their project. In this case I think people were more interested in the feature sets of various 2D engines and not so much on if it ran on your machine or what opinion you had formed about it.
If you had purchased t2D and were using it and had some issues with it's design or architecture, or perhaps you thought it was too limiting or something along those lines I'm sure people would be more willing to hear what you have to say. You were fairly critical of GarageGames earlier in this thread, insinuating that they were posting a bunch of crap in .plans that they couldn't really deliver on. I don't think anyone was surprised when the demo didn't run on your machine. It's failed on some other peoples machines as well, everyone knows that this is an "early adopter" release and that there are going to be bugs and issues that come up.
That's the whole point of this release, to let people start playing with the technology and find any of the rough spots that might need some improvement. It give people who are interested to have a say in the products development. People are more receptive of a critical opinion when they feel it is informed, intentionally or not your posts have come across as uninformed negative opinions and I too felt like you had an axe to grind with T2D and GarageGames.
I'm not posting to try and trash your reputation, but rather I think there is a lesson here for other posters as well. If you are going to post something critical about someone else's work, be sure they want that feedback, and if you cannot determine that, be sure you opinion is informed and well founded.
Hmmm... Didn't know that congratulating people for finishing games was sucking up... Oh well...if that's what sucking up means then....then...I guess I was sucking up....
Well, I guess I've learned a lesson here - from hence forth, I will aboslutely not join any thread involving any kind of A vs. B discussion. It seems that unless I end any such posts with a slew of happy faces, everyone will go off and think the worst of me just because I'm not writing with an endless wave of enthusiasm.
EDIT: I realize now that I already wrote a post about Torque crashing on me days before the other - completely forgot about it. Boy, I really feel like an asshat now for following that up with another one for seemingly no reason. I totally see where you're all coming from - apologies for all.
blitzmax is pretty cool, but its just a programming language, no tools to speak of. So you will have to build your own or use someone elses modules. It's kin dof cool though, there's already some ODE integration for physics, and you have direct access to openGL so you can use pixel shaders or whatever, and someone recently created a handy DDS compressed texture loader.
I'm more interested in 3D though, and am waiting to see what happens in that front. But I may well garb a gopy of T2D to pay with. THe tools built into that make T2d far more accessible to someone just wanting to throw together a quick game. Rather than have to start from scratch, and in my opinion Bmax is still several months away from being flexible enough to do top quality games.
yeah.. i dunno what happened too.. it says the great 2d engine stress shootout but when you start to criticize one engine over the other even said that it crashed on your computer, ppl suddenly give you a hard time
i don't see anything wrong with ppl reporting various results they get from their experiences with engines including errors/bugs, at least i hope they're honest with it.
Its true though, there is nothing wrong with pointing out some problems as well as goodies. I gave T2D a shot and it is a very good tool for rad games. But I also found out that It will take me time to learn it and do with it what I need to. And it did crash on me a few times. It is a good tool though, and cross platform as well, so it is very good in some situations but not in all.
I'm releasing a small edutainment product with T2D early adopter, and I think it's plenty good enough. It has crashed on me, but only when I did something out of the ordinary and bugs I found have been fixed and will appear in the next update. Tested on 3 machines with no troubles (crashes only occurred during development).
It's a great engine. I've also tried HGE, ClanLib and PTK, but they all pale. I mean absolutely no offense to the hard-working guys behind those engines, but in my case the features of T2D are much more what I'm looking for. Physics, particles, tile maps, no low-level details to muck with, runs on PC and Mac, any resolution, etc etc. The list is long.
You'll be seeing many games from me using this fine engine now and in the "final" release.
Dan, unfortunatelly you are right: people do not want to hear about the problems in their projects. But I think this thread was all about commenting on 2D engines performance, features, and drawbacks. I emphasise having said the latter. More than 5 posters have expressed their difficulty into finding a 2D engine that does this and that (some were small technical issues, like rendering a bit slow on some old version of video card).
To go back on the subject: I guess illume posted on page 2 a list of things that should have probably responded to the original question. I am looking forward to hearing some more along those lines, and less upon the T2D flames. I will also contribute with some issue:
+ number of basic widgets: windows, buttons, edit boxes, icons, lists
+ number of advanced widgets
+ ability to customize widgets
+ ability to create new widgets
+ ability to load themes
+ ability to change GUI while the program is running (program code/script code/GUI files)
+ editor for themes?
Plus, I would raise an additional question: how would you rate these features to get single scores (at least per category)?