The Great 2D Engine Stress Test Shootout

Discussion in 'Game Development (Technical)' started by Martoon, Feb 9, 2005.

  1. ManuelFLara

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  2. MrPhil

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  3. FlySim

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    I was ready to plunk down the cash for T2D today, but my partner mentioned that the D3D version of the demo had some problems on his laptop. So we tried it out on an old Win98 laptop - crash. We were hoping to run on more machines than our current OpenGL implementation - oh well. I hope GG will improve the portability to older machines....
     
  4. Dan MacDonald

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    That's a known issue for the early adopter version, they are actively working on getting the renderer's up to par on older machines for the v1.0.
     
  5. bentlegen

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    The demo originally crashed on startup for me. How did I get it working? I grew frustrated and uninstalled the package. After exiting the uninstall wizard, lo and behold, the demo magically pops up and starts running. Plus I'm running WindowsXP. Kind of soured me a little bit.

    - ben
     
  6. Mark Fassett

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    I'm amazed at all the grousing about bugs... It's an Early Adopter version!!! It's not finished software. Not even close. They had tons of people asking if they could have it, even though it wasn't done, so they put it up for sale. Get over it. The bugs will get fixed. You should, instead, be asking yourself, when it's finished, is it something you want to work with.

    You'd think people here had never used beta software before...
     
  7. luggage

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    I'm not too bothered about there being bugs, I'd just like to know what kind of timeline we're looking at to get them fixed. This would be the same even if they were at version 1.0.

    It's still worth using it just to get an idea on how it works and to prototype ideas. I'm just not expecting to ship anything with it anytime soon.

    Would be good if the other demos were available though. Looking forward to the next update.
     
  8. Melv May

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    The update will be there when we've fixed all the bugs. Most people wouldn't be too happy if we said in two days and released it without the specific bug you're interested in being fixed.

    Don't forget, we've also not had many bugs for a first release. We also want to improve documentation and implement a few of the things that have been suggested. This is only day 6-7 after the release. You've got to give us time, there's only 24 hours in a day on this planet. ;)

    Early Adopter is for people to play with the technology and to simply enjoy it as well as having the unique opportunity to suggest improvements that you'd really like to see. I've heard some great ideas already from people on the forums as well as privately and we're on our way to implementing them. Early Adopter isn't for people to ship products and so I'm not suprised you won't be shipping with it, it's not a final product yet. Always bear that in mind.

    Also, GDC is upon us and so that adds even more things to get done.

    All this and a day job. We really are sincerely trying guys.

    - Melv.
     
  9. baegsi

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    Melv, could you please clarify this. I haven't understood how and what version of DirectX is supported by T2D. I think you wrote somewhere that OpenGL is the prefered option, but if I want to use DirectX, how could I do this? And this there a performance penalty involved? Thanks!
     
  10. Melv May

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    No problem. Love to explain any T2D details.

    T2D should run using OpenGL 1.0+ and DirectX8+.

    Whilst developing T2D I regularly check OpenGL/DX performance and so far there's very little difference. One thing to be cautious about is transferring results from TGE to T2D. The DirectX rendering layer from TGE doesn't always give the best results but this is dominated by 3D rendering issues which are far more taxing than how T2D drives GPUs. A majority of the issues don't relate to the simple texturing of polygons which is 90% of what T2D does.

    Also, don't expect T2D to use this system forever. You can expect T2D to use a completely different rendering system more along the lines of TSE than TGE with the possibility of shader support.

    What we've got to do now is work on stabilisation, features, editors and more impotantly, documentation. We'll also be working on methods to provide more detail to people before they put their hard-earned cash down.

    If enough people purchase it, I can work on this fulltime and then the real fireworks will happen!

    - Melv.
     
  11. DangerCode

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    Hi Melv, great work on T2D and the new particle system.

    Is there any chance of providing a software rendering solution (or at least supporting DirectX7) for those of us concerned about reaching the most customers?
     
  12. Melv May

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    Hi,

    We won't be changing the existing rendering layer to DirectX7 in its current form. When we move to another rendering layer, we'll be doing it because of that very reason you mentioned ... getting T2D running on as many platforms / low-specs as possible, including software rendering.

    All this though is in the future and is almost beyond discussion because we're only days into the release and it's just impossible to give you an idea of when, as much as I would like to.

    It's really one step at a time but we're definately going to be picking-up the pace after GDC with lots of stuff happening on T2D. First and foremost will be to implement the things we promised to everyone before the release. :)

    - Melv.
     
  13. FlySim

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    I guess I thought it was closer to done - my mistake. We were going to port a game that is close to beta, but will hold off to evaluate the completed product.
     
  14. Coyote

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    I've been following the development of T2D for a while.

    I don't have any 2D projects currently on the slate, though that could change. Especially if the tool allows me to go from concept to market in 1/2 to 1/4th the time. Melv, do you guys have any feeling for a timetable for when T2D will be considered ready for full commercial development?
     
  15. Melv May

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    It's hard to say but top of my head would be 6 months but lots of pressures could make that sooner or later.

    I personally don't think people should hold-off, getting it early ensures you have a say in its development and get to learn about it before you need it. We're not going to be changing the way it works, we'll be adding functionality, better editors, more documentation and we're going to try our best to ensure that we don't break anything on the way.

    Totally up to you guys but the early adopter has its benefits to many people, not the least being us as we get to listen to people using it and that does drive design considerations.

    T2D has proven to be very stable and is already showing a maturity even at this early stage. There's plenty of feedback from the system if you do something dumb and all we need to do now is bring together more doco and tutorials and over the next few weeks, we'll be releasing much better demos.

    - Melv.
     
  16. dima

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    I am tempted to get into this one, but I would really like to at least see some sample code and demos. Its hard to dive into something while you're working with something else without really knowing what you're getting into.

    Still good chance that I will purhase this in the near future, as the cross platform ability is a must these days.
     
  17. Ciperl

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    This is crazy...BentleGen, there is lot of negativity flowing through a lot of your 44 posts. Plus, reading through your posts I get the feeling that you've NEVER shipped a game. An early adopter release means an early adopter release. If you take the time to visit the Torque2D forums you'll see that in the past five days, they have exploded with activity with no less that seven games fully playable and just being finished up with some polish. (and this is with early adopter stage).

    Making games should be about enjoying your experience, having a good time doing it, being creative, learning new tricks-of-the-trade, and most of all finishing a game. I give mass "props" to all those in this forum who have finished a game, that is a big accomplishment. But it is really interesting to see that those people (the ones who have finished games) always seem to be available for help and are constantly encouraging people on the forum. Those that haven't finished a game, seem a bit more negative.
     
  18. dima

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    Very itchy to buy it... But I'm not sure if the best thing to do is get it now and start dicing, or finish what im doing first, and then possibly port later. HGE is very stable for me and it will run on low end hardware, as long as DX8 is installed. Porting over to T2D would take some time, so that extra time in the development cycle. Also, Im not exactly sure how the performance will be or how stable it will be. Still, $100 isnt that much I guess... very itchy.
     
  19. matthew180

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    I purchased T2D a few days ago and have been having a blast with it! Coming from a more procedural point of view, the event based scripting takes a little getting used to, but I have to admit it's actually fun! I'm enjoying it totally! And the particle system, all I can say is holy cow! The effects the particle system create are movie and broadcast quailty, and very easy to get the results you want once you mess with it a little. No more making effect graphics by hand, no sir! The only problem I see with it will be making the other game graphics on par with the particles.

    As far a performance goes, I've had at least a hundred sprites on screen, particle effects, scrolling tilemap, and sound, all without any noticable problems or slowdowns.

    If you are looking for a 2D engine, (and even if you're not, you should be) I have to highly recommend T2D. A game engine sure is the way to go if you want to skip all the drudge work and get to making games. Sure T2D is a little rough right now, but hey, it's beta. Just like everything else GG does, they'll get it done, and get it done right!

    Matthew
     
  20. dima

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    OK, purchased....

    Downloading right now, hopefully I will be able to do wat I need to, and if not, o well, still will make games with it in the future, and yeah 100 beans is not that big of a deal.

    Finished downloading... Looking over the PDFs, particles look sweet.
     
    #140 dima, Mar 4, 2005
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2005

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