The Great 2D Engine Stress Test Shootout

Discussion in 'Game Development (Technical)' started by Martoon, Feb 9, 2005.

  1. Melv May

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    Does it really?

    I was not involved in the packaging of that. I will check.

    I am sorry for any confusion caused in that case.

    *rushes off to check* :)
    - Melv.
     
  2. Melv May

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    @Ricardo: Could you just tell me where it says that so I can fix it?

    I don't recall this anywhere in the demo.

    - Melv.
     
  3. dima

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    Melv, demo doesnt say to look for the editors. I assumed this from F10 actually working, and the site mensioned the built in editors. All good though.

    What I really want to know is how easy is it to render an arbitrary quads. I have a game right now, that might work well if I ported it over to T2D, because I like the cross platforms. But I need to be able to easily render quads, with specific colors for each vertex. Also it would be good to have MOD music support, like .XM

    i'll wait for the more info and maybe some editors to check out.
     
  4. Ricardo C

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    There's nothing to fix, because I'm a class-A moron :eek: The editor shortcuts were posted here, it was never in the demo info. I'm really sorry for the confusion.
     
  5. ManuelFLara

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    @Melv I understand why GG would not want to enable editors in the demo version (AFAIK the Torque EULA specifies you can't release a product that allows the user to "make a game", in some way, and having a tile, particle and GUI editor as well as the scripts, would suffice to make one), but why unregistered users can't see ANY sample documentation / tutorials in order to see how it is working with T2D? Of course you have the official Torque documentation (so TGE DOES have documentation available for unregistered users) for the scripting syntax but nothing T2D-related.
     
  6. tentons

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    @ManuelFLara: As Melv mentioned, it's just too early to have more public/marketing information (got to prioritize with limited time). I'm sure there'll be lots more public info soon.
     
  7. Melv May

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    @ManualFLara: The thing to realise is that it's only Monday and we only did a quiet release of the T2D SDK for windows as we were not quite ready with the Linux/Mac stuff but didn't want to force people to wait. We managed to get the preliminary doco in the SDK but not the rest. We've been working all weekend (and I've just got home from a days work at my day job) to support the people who did purchase.

    You speak of why not this and why not that but please understand, we're just trying to get started here. We haven't even begun to put out marketing info like examples, doco, whitepapers blah blah blah.

    If you're cautious over spending your $100 then cool but please give us the time to prepare stuff for the people who don't want to just jump in.

    Thanks.

    - Melv.
     
  8. yanuart

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    i'm not complaining about the simple demo, I know soon there'll be others that blow your mind and demonstrate t2d full features.

    what i don't understand, with little infos,demos, docs n such, how can some of you say "hey this is great product, I can make games with it, I'm looking forward to make great games with it" ?? :rolleyes:
     
  9. tentons

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    I know a lot of programmers who have to have control over every aspect and want things a very specific way. I guess middleware in general is not for that type of programmer.

    Having said that, the dev team is extremely supportive and listen to any suggestions and go out of their way to help you resolve any issues whatsoever. Support is awesome.

    I'm picky about language features (having become acquainted with D and C# as models) so I might be more harsh than most.

    It tends to be too forgiving IMHO, for one thing. You can make sloppy mistakes pretty easily. It doesn't enforce object orientation as much as I'd prefer, mainly because it's really easy to write spaghetti code.

    It handles arrays with some weird syntax conventions that are not necessary and add ambiguity (the language is typeless). For instance: myArray[0] and myArray0 are equivalent but myArray is a separate variable completely. Being typeless lets you do some cool but dangerous things like change a function call based on name (string) modification which could lead to hard to trace bugs.

    It uses C++ conventions that I don't like, such as using optional namespaces instead of requiring objects be in discrete packages which eliminates the need for namespaces from the start and also enforces encapsulation. (Note that you can simulate this with "packages" I think, but I haven't gotten that far yet.) Booleans are interchangeable as integer values, which isn't unexpected since it's a typeless language, but I'd rather have some type enforcement to find subtle bugs this can cause.

    Overall, though, the scripting language is not a barrier. It's simple to learn, fast, allows for inheritance and the benefits that go with it, and has some great features such as flexible string handling. It gets the job done and does what it promises.

    Like I said, if you can't look over things like this, you might find it unpleasant, but so far I'm having a blast and it's serving me well. I don't foresee ever using another 2D engine for any game I plan to make, which is about the highest praise I could hope to offer. :)

    You can read more about the scripting language or the Torque3d engine in general to help decide. (The chapter about Marble Blast was really interesting to read.)
     
  10. tentons

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    I say that because I bought it and I am making a game with it right now. :cool:

    And actually there is a lot of info available. Did you read it? :)

    Exposing the seedy underbelly of T2D
    Torque 2D informal technical overview
     
    #110 tentons, Feb 28, 2005
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2005
  11. yanuart

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    good for you then ;).. nooo, I'm asking what makes you bought it at the first place.. but oh.. yeah you read the .plans :).

    anyway i stumbled into a strange bug on the demo which I think need to be fixed :
    1. There was few times, actually it only happened twice when the game somehow skip frames wildly for a few seconds. I can't figure out how it happens tho, it seems randomly happened usually when the enemy is quite full on the screen (>7th bigship, am I the only one who played it that long ?? lol) but there are times when it's not :confused:.
    Now, I own a good rig (p2.4ghz, rad9500), not state of the art but enough to make me play HL2 and I've seen other 2D shmup with crazy graphics and.. oh, I'm not running other programs on background.

    2. pause the game if user switch to other program/window :D

    Anyway i'm not trying to bash anything just wanna gives my honest experience, so actually i'm not looking for anything when i played the demo.
    I'll play some more to see what it really was
     
  12. Melv May

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    @yanuart: There are some performance issues in the shooter demo but that was completely my bad. As we've said before, it was written really quickly just to prove that games are easy to write with T2D.

    Those performances issues are not T2D, it's that I didn't correctly cap things like number of particles, debris etc. Half-Life 2 doesn't try to show you 5000 particles and 3000 debris bits at the same time because stuff like this is capped.

    T2D's sprite/particle system is extremely fast but in the end, any system bails when you push it too hard.

    That stuff is/has being fixed and will be updated soon.

    - Melv.
     
  13. dima

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    How hard is it to draw a QUAD, with any color I want for each vertex. I hope it isnt that hard.
     
  14. Mark Fassett

    Moderator Indie Author

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    I don't think it gives you direct access in that fashion, however, if you really need it - you get the source, so you can add that functionality yourself.
     
  15. Melv May

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    It is not hard at all, in fact it's ridiculously simple but you cannot do this from the scripts. You get all the C++ code to the engine as well as the T2D layer (which you'll work with) so no problems.

    - Melv.
     
  16. yanuart

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    hmm.. i don't think it happened during a very hectic scene .. I saw crazier scene in the demo with particles n debris.
    anyway.. that's just an info, haven't got the time to play it again :D
     
  17. MrPhil

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    <fanboy>T2D Rocks!!!!!!</fanboy>

    Okay so I’m a convert. I’m pretty much convinced that this is my new engine and I’m dropping all my C# code I’ve already created. I’ll miss my Visual Studio IDE, and my NUnit, but in exchange I’m getting to the core of my game play. My emotions are high and my motivation is charge because instead of figuring out camera problems, matrix transforms and collision detection I’m working on the fun details of my game.

    I wish I could put why I’m so positive about this into words, maybe a screenshot will have to do. I got my starmap working in about six hours which real is a much too high of a number because during that time I also messed around with different script editors, did a lot a mouse event stuff and did a lot of reading on the forums. (There one great thing: the forums are full of people helping each other out with their problems.)

    This is my starmap at different zoom levels changed using my mouse wheel.
     

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  18. baegsi

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    What IDE do you guys use for Torque Script? There isn't a eclipse plug-in available by any chance :D ?
     
  19. Melv May

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    I don't use Eclipse myself but...

    Eclipse

    - Melv.
     
  20. tentons

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    @Mr. Phil: I converted my old code and got the basics playable in literally only a few hours (something that took about 6 months to build from scratch in C++ before). I love T2D. :)

    I use Eclipse with the TorquEdit plugin, which is unpolished but does the job and let's me use Eclipse's nice features.
     

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