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Discussion in 'Game Development (Technical)' started by Martoon, Feb 9, 2005.
The difference between and engine and a "lib" is one of emphasis drawing the line between an engine and a "lib" can sometimes be difficult so I will address the difference between the extremes of the two.
Lib's are things like DirectDraw, Allegro, SDL etc. They provide a series of features to perform basic drawing operations. You can take those features and build your own architecture on top of them, abstract them etc.
With an engine that architecture is already in place. If you have not used an engine before this may feel a bit alien to you. Instead of just figuring out how to do a blit or a drawLine with the new technology. You deal with more abstract concepts like "staticSprites" and "animatedSprotes" or ImageBlocks and TileMaps. Each of these objects has an API of sorts that you must become familiar with in order to use the features of the engine.
The emphasis of an engine is to provide you with an abstract collection of objects that ease the implementation of new ideas. The emphasis of a "lib" is to provide you with an abstraction from the hardware. "libs" are much more about technology, while "engines" emphasize abstraction from the technology and instead provide you with an object model to work with.
This is a much broader discussion then is appropriate for a single post on a message board, but that's the gist of the distinction between the two. In reply to your question, you would have a hard time shoehorning T2D into the rendering classes of your existing games because T2D is not about rendering, it's about providing a generic object model from which to create 2D games.
I wasn't implying that engines are harder to use in general, only that it's more difficult to create bindings for new languages. Because the game loop is implemented in T2D, inter-language communication has to go both ways.
In any case, I'm looking forward to playing with T2D.
@Tamlin: One day we'll have audio/video forums and then it'll be easier to get your point across, damn text! Actually, there's no problem integrating another language abstractly into the TGE; plenty of people actually use Python with TGE, Josh Ritter being the most prominent.
This link was just posted in the GG irc chat channel:
Looks like they shipped it.
yeah.. wait.. there rn't ways to see the engine first unless you've bought it ?
All you have to do is click on the little button that says DEMO.
Im curious what you guys think about working with T2D on a game with this early adopter release - is that safe? Will the final product be finished in time? Are there other risks I'm not thinking of?
EDIT: Ermm ... I downloaded the demo, and it crashed on startup. I guess that answers my questions, laugh. I'm sure it'll get fixed
yeah see, the demo is a small shooting game, it's no way to judge what the engine is all about in terms on how you can use the engine to create games, what are the features, how the development process&steps, limitations, etc.. i might as well see the screenshots collection.
come to think of it, I don't think there'll ever be a "trial" version of an engine but other engines are usually downloaded free (with no source code of course .. i never understand why they give source code.. no we don't wanna that's why we look for engines) and you have to pay when you decide to create something commercials.
This approach looks better for me cause that way I can look and asses the engine or at least try to make a game out of it and decide wether I like it or not for further development,it's not always about what the engine can do but also how can I blend my current development process into it, what's the future for this engine, will this engines features limit my gamedesign, etc. I don't wanna pay any money to be able to do this.. I dunno.. I sounded negative again so I think i better give my apologies first and wait till someone actually make something and give comments /postmortem on the engine.
@yanuart: Press tilde, F10, F11, or F12. The whole system is there. Not sure about what files come with the demo, but you should also be able to dig through some script files (*.cs) to see what the scripting engine is like.
I bought a copy. Looking forward to it with giddy excitement.
Only the F10 worked for me, no particle editor no Tile editor that I could see. Overall it looks ok though, cant really tell without some code.
Yeah, I really don't understand why there's at least the documentation (at least partially) or tutorials on-line so people can see how it is working with T2D.
Yikes, why does it turn my PC into a Macintosh?!
Quite a nice little shooter demo for a couple of days work.
Actually only about 10 hours of work
I count 8 hours as one days work...
Having worked with it for a couple days, I can say that it's a great rapid development tool, and a great engine to release with as well. Things are simple, flexible, and there's a lot of power if you want to use it. I've only scratched the surface.
Perhaps the thing I like best is that all the low level stuff is taken care of, and it's built on a well tested and mature core. If you can accept the structure and quirks of the framework, it will serve you well. If you are more picky about how things get done, you might not like it. I could complain about some things (especially the scripting language) but I'm just going to grin and bear it because there's a ton of power waiting to be tapped.
Well worth the price in my case.
Edit: Just to add, perhaps the biggest benefit is that the price of maintenance and evolving the engine/framework is greatly reduced with a middleware solution. This will cut your overhead, allowing you more time to focus on the content rather than the technology. So I see it as a huge win.
The more I read Josh Williams .plans, the more excited I get. That guy is infectious!
As a time-strapped part-time indie I need all the help I can get, and if that means using someone else's framework then so be it. I can live with that list of features
Tentons: what quirks do you mean re the framework? And what are the shortcomings of the scripting language?
how come I cant check out the particle and tile editors? F10 works, but not F11 or F12. I was under the impression that all those work in the demos. Am I missing something?
@Dima: The shooter demo is only really to show a basic game put together in a short timespan, not the detailed capabilities of T2D. The editors are not yet publically available. Also, the editors are first-revision and will be drastically changing over the coming months.
We worked like hell to get to the point of release for Friday and today we'll be launching the full Linux and Mac support as well. We'll also be launching an upgraded demo to remove a few problems (that I made).
You'll have to bear with us. We fully intend to get example information/demos on T2Ds capabilities but there's only so much time.
GG has not even publically announced the release yet to non GG members. We're about to hit full release status with the announcement of the new Linux and Mac builds.
We've now got seven demos which together give a much better idea of capability, if not SDK detail. We'll be launch these progressively over the next couple of weeks.
As always, time is the enemy. We certainly don't expect people to spend their hard-earned money without more information. For now, if you're unsure, then I'd recommend waiting for more information/announcements that will help you decided whether T2D is for you.
It's always easy to want, it's so much more difficult to give. Damn only having 24 hours in a day (and a fulltime job)
Then perhaps the demo shouldn't tell users how to access the editors. I was confused too, wondering if I was having a conflict of some sort.