The Goalkeeper Beta Demo

Discussion in 'Feedback Requests' started by Jack Norton, Sep 15, 2004.

  1. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Goalkeeper BETA Demo is online here:
    http://www.winterwolves.com/games/GKTrial.exe

    if you ever wanted to beat Bartèz, Buffon or Seaman now is your chance ;)
    Any bugs/suggestions are welcome. Hope you manage to figure out how to play, I put lot of ingame help as I did with UBM (maybe even more).

    Screenshots:
    http://www.winterwolves.com/images/gk01.jpg
    http://www.winterwolves.com/images/gk02.jpg
    http://www.winterwolves.com/images/gk03.jpg
    http://www.winterwolves.com/images/gk04.jpg

    Maybe I'll add also a HTML help file in the final demo.

    Edit: just wanted to clarify, it 's a sort of experiment. I made it in 1month and half, and I can recycle lot of its code to do (in 2005!!) USM2. I thought that was an original idea so I tried it. But of course new ideas are always risky, sort of "hit or miss"... :eek:
     
    #1 Jack Norton, Sep 15, 2004
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2004
  2. Andy

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Messages:
    1,258
    Likes Received:
    0
    ... and No... :p

    I'm afraid 99% of peoples like to shoot the goal than keep the goal from attacks. ;)

    Just my two cents and hope I'm wrong!
     
  3. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well I heard lot of people telling me that a boxing manager game was a secure failure even before I finished a beta... so people, keep telling me that Goalkeeper will be a failure too! :D
     
  4. Andy

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Messages:
    1,258
    Likes Received:
    0
    Want a bet Jack? Or want me to remove my opinion from the thread?

    Before I will do it: soccer is a failure, soccer goalkeeper is failure in twice.
    Hell Jack, I want to loose with this my opinion! So, accept this my personal opinion ONLY as my marketing exersises.

    PS Again. Just say me and I will remove my part of the thread.

    Wishing you success....
     
  5. Diragor

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jack, your Goalkeeper game will be a miserable failure!

    Hope that helps. :D Actually, I haven't even played it yet but I intend to.
     
  6. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    0
    LOL!!
    Ok ok, now I need some REAL feedback, or the game will turn into a failure for real ;)
     
  7. Wayward

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've played soccer management games a little before, so 'The Goalkeeper' was familiar.

    It was very easy to find my way through the game and work out what to do, though I did get stuck on the training screen on my first visit. I don't know how I missed the HUGE 'back' button in the top-left. Perhaps it was ghosted, or maybe I didn't expect to find it where it was. I expected the 'done' button to complete training and take me back, but that appeared (on first try) to just clear the training list.

    I seemed to spend more time spending privilege points to suck up to the coach than training. I'd rather be training as it seems more honest. Once I'd blown my initial training points it seemed to take a long time to build up more.

    I found the text edit boxes a bit clunky compared to the Windows edit boxes that most users will be familiar with. For example, the edit box missed keystrokes if I typed quickly, and the cursors keys didn't work. I realize implementing your own fully-featured edit box is a lot of programming, especially considering how rarely they're used in the game.

    The game started with a half-second sound glitch.

    The music made me laugh, but I had to turn it off quickly.

    The arcade bit gave me a bit of a shock as I wasn't expecting it, but I liked it. It gave me another shock in the second match where the ball seemed to go twice as fast. It was odd that you'd make what looked like a perfect save yet the ball still went in the net.

    I can't tell if the gameplay works or not. I didn't play for long enough and management isn't really my thing. It seems to have most of the hallmarks of a soccer sim minus the team selection, transfers, and finances. These elements could be offset with more fully-featured training. One idea could be to expand the training options (like a tech tree) as you develop new skills.

    I guess my response is: I wanted more chances and options to develop my characters skills through training.

    Is 'The Goalkeeper' the first in an entire series consisting of 'The Defender', 'The Midfielder', 'The Winger', 'The Striker', and 'The Referee'? :)
     
    #7 Wayward, Sep 15, 2004
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2004
  8. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks a lot, that was exactly what I wanted: a good feedback :)
    I thought too about more option in the skill screen, probably I'll increase the options or redesign it in future versions.
     
  9. Eriken

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Most of it came rather easy, (I even found the back button right way :D ) the only confusing thing was the in-game action where you're supposed to save the ball:

    I didn't see any explanation on this and couldn't quite understand why it was an unstopable goal with both gloves behind the ball. Maybe it's a magic ball that blasts through anything ;) So an explanation on that stuff would be nice, now it's just frustrating. Also when the ball hit the centre of the post, it still went in seemed abit odd to me.

    Other than that, the game looks good, and made me miss the good old days with games like "Footballer of the year", "Striker" and similar games.

    Now, I should make my own football game shouldn't I ? :)

    Nice work :)
    _____
    Eriken
     
  10. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes I need to put an explanation for that: with the arcade mode, you need very high accuracy for shoots with difficulty >90%.
    Imagine it as the goalkeeper get a hand to the ball but still it goes in the net (maybe because was a powerful shoot by Adriano! :cool: )
    I need to explain it because as you say people could be disappointed :)
    The post-goal is a bug :( damn I thought I removed that...!

    After some consideration I've thought to remove the music completely and put just some jingles...better I think, otherwise gets too repetitive.
     
  11. Eriken

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Or you can just create an option in-game to tune the volume of music and sound-fx. Some people might want the sounds, like the PacMan-generation :D
    _____
    Eriken
     
  12. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is, in the option screen :)

    P.S. I just uploaded a slightly modified version, with no background music (only 2 jingles) and balanced arcade save, there shouldn't be anymore the post-bug ;) I also added the explanation of why sometime you can get goal even if you think you saved the shot.
     
    #12 Jack Norton, Sep 15, 2004
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2004
  13. ggambett

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,982
    Likes Received:
    6
    OK, I played for a while. The demo ran out too quickly! I think that's a good thing :)

    I liked the idea. The arcade part of the simulation is very original and fun, IMO. So, my comments are mostly minor nit-picking :

    1) The change face arrows should wrap around
    2) The background of the OK and Cancel buttons in the GK creation screen are wrong. They change when I move the mouse over them.
    3) You need to make the goalkeeper name exactly one character larger - so I can write "José Luis Félix Chilavert" :)
    4) Resting is "free". So I got injured, went to the training screen, rested and rested and rested, and I got back to "excellent" shape. If that's the idea, automate it (remove the physical shape). If it's not, don't let me rest indefinitely : give me the choice of resting once and playing the next match, or recover completely and skip the next match (thus giving the coach a chance of sending me to the bench)
    5) I took a while to figure out how did the saves work. If I understood correctly, if my accuracy is greater than the difficulty, I save the goal. So get rid of the unstoppable goals! If it's unstoppable, set its difficulty to 99%, and at least let me think I could have saved it (even if it's not true). If by "unstoppable goal" you mean "you tried but they scored anyway", change its name.
    6) The demo ended without the coach ever talking to me. People can get the wrong impression that the game is like that all the time.
    7) I never went to talk to the coach, or see my contract. If it's an important part of the game, make it obvious!
    8) I think the INSTANT button in the match said you skip straight to where you have to save. Instead, the game played without my intervention, even scoring goals against me. I'd like the INSTANT option to make me save the shots and skip the minutes VERY quickly, and an AUTOMATIC option to let me just watch the game.

    All in all, a nice game for soccer fans, and specially for guys who play as GK (I did for many years!). So, best of luck, and it will be a Miserable Failure (TM)! :D
     
  14. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for your feedback Gabriel :)
    About some points:
    1) yes, good idea
    3) Ehmm just put J.L. Chilavert! :D
    4) eheh didn't you read the description or looked at your skills decreasing? every time you rest you gain 5 condition points but lose -1 for each skills. if you do that for 50 conditions points you lose 10 for each stats which is a lot. The idea of the game is, like in real life, you can skip some matches for injury (anyway the condition slowly get up with time, even without rest)
    5) not exactly: if your accuracy is around 90% you get a great bonus while calculating the result. the fact is that I want to consider the GK skills anyway: if you have very low skills and the shot is very difficult, even if you make a high accuracy save, you could get a goal (even if a very good goal).
    As I said I want to recreate those very powerful or accurate shots, where maybe the keeper can just touch the ball but can't prevent the goal.
    6) well it depends on situations, maybe you played well. If you play several bad matches in a row you'll have to talk to coach
    7) later in the game it is: see point 6
    8) I thought about that. But the max speed is already quite fast I think (if you make no saves, a match duration is just 40 seconds!), so the Skip is for those who want to skip completely the match. I may reconsider this though

    As I have noticed, I may have to put more texts explaining better the mechanism of the game...
     
  15. luggage

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    I liked the idea and the game wasn't too bad. I think it could be really nice.

    West Bromwich is actually called West Bromwich Albion, West Brom for short or WBA (it's the team I support, 'bottom 5' *sob*). West Brom would be the most logical choice.

    I didn't like the unstoppable shots. It just seems unfair, like it didn't matter how well I did it would just decide to be a goal. The arcade part seems like the best bit of the game.

    Maybe make the hands have more 'resistance' as you move them away from the center of the goal. This could then get reduced the better your jumping skill is. Imagine it sort of like being tied to the center of the goal by elastic.

    Add in a second shot, as if the ball has been deflected back into play (this could depend upon your handling). So you have one shot then immediately there's another shot. The time between shots could be based upon your reflexes, better the reflexes more notice you have of the shot (so the second shot would be slower, giving you more time to react).

    Have the ball move. This would add quite a lot to the game. The rate it fades on would be based on how hard the shot is and how good your reflexes are and how far out the shot.

    Add curve onto the ball as well, it will make it trickier to save and more realistic. For example you could have the ball curve into the top corner of the goal which would be tricky to save due to the 'restraint' on the mouse as you move away from the center.

    You could simulate mishandling by animating the gloves parting. This should be based on the power of the shot and only if the full hands aren't behind the ball. As your handling gets better you could make better finger tip saves.

    This way instead of having unstoppable shots it can just be difficult to save them. As you get better you'll make more saves.

    You could also maybe add a mouse button to catch the ball or punch it. Say clicking the mouse will cause the hands to 'grab'. If you time it right and the balls positioned correctly in the hands it's a much better save. Mistime it though and there's a chance the ball will deflect into the goal. If you don't click it behaves like it's deflected and you should see the ball bounce away.

    If the shots are nice and slow and easy to position your hands, you'll catch it, as you would in football. If it's difficult, you'll concentrate on pushing the ball away.

    It also appeared to add goals to the opposition even though I didn't get chance to make a save. Wasn't sure if I messed something up or not though.
     
  16. Dan MacDonald

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,424
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't like the unstopable shots and I haven't even tried the game yet! :eek:

    It's generally a bad idea to have things happen to the player that they have no control over, they blame the game and the designer for their failure. Better to have them blame themselves. Make the ball suddenly curve at the end so they clearly missed it if you must! :)
     
  17. Valkilos

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2004
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    I played this game for a bit - quite good, actually!

    It seems that the "Unstoppable Goals" (the ones with a 99% difficulty) aren't, in fact, literally unstoppable. I saved two (in the same game)! The only thing is, I didn't actually get a 99% Save... one was a 94%, and the second was an 89%! I'm not sure if this was due to a bug, or if there's a randomizer thrown in there, or what, so I figured I'd better let you know.

    I ended up spending a lot of prestige points talking to my coach... until I realized that prestige is what my goalkeeper's ranking was based on! :eek:

    Training points are so slow in accumulating - of course, this may be necessary for game balance, but I was hoping to have more opportunities to improve my player, even if only by a little bit.

    I kept trying to follow the rest of the game (you know, the stuff with all my teammates ;) ) ...but I kept losing track of who was on whose team when things were happening. I don't know if it would end up looking tacky or not, but a thought I had was to color-code players names (for instance, the name of the home team, and the names of all its players, would be in red, and blue text would be used for the away team).

    It would be nice to show an animation when my own team attempted a goal, or at least when they scored one. I'm not sure how to make it so it wouldn't be confusing though (if I saw a ball flying towards a net, I'd start frantically clicking, thinking it was a shot on my own net).

    A greater variety in the text shown during games and during news reports would be nice in the final version.

    Anyhow, that's just my input - great game so far!
     
  18. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes infact, with the current mode, they can be saved but you need to make an accuracy of >90%. There's some calculation behind it but basically:
    if Accuracy>85% then add 30% increase on saving
    if Accuracy>90% then add 50% increase on saving

    then it compares it with shot difficulty and your skills.
    But the best suggestion probably is:
    I thoght about that but had some difficulties implementing it, but would be surely the BEST system. You have low skills? the hands move slower, so it is actually more difficult to save for real :D

    OK going to make those improvements, and also add more variety on texts.
     
  19. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok I've uploaded a new version with the gloves moving accordingly to the goalkeeper skills. I have added also some more texts in the TV commentary, probably I'll add some more too in the final version.
    If anyone want to try the new version is welcome of course :D
     
  20. Teq

    Teq
    Original Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    0
    The game looks nice mate, will have a play later on :)
     

Share This Page

  • About Indie Gamer

    When the original Dexterity Forums closed in 2004, Indie Gamer was born and a diverse community has grown out of a passion for creating great games. Here you will find over 10 years of in-depth discussion on game design, the business of game development, and marketing/sales. Indie Gamer also provides a friendly place to meet up with other Developers, Artists, Composers and Writers.
  • Buy us a beer!

    Indie Gamer is delicately held together by a single poor bastard who thankfully gets help from various community volunteers. If you frequent this site or have found value in something you've learned here, help keep the site running by donating a few dollars (for beer of course)!

    Sure, I'll Buy You a Beer