Silverlight - name your favorite product

Discussion in 'Game Development (Technical)' started by tolik, Jun 2, 2010.

  1. oNyx

    Original Member

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    Yea... no one has ever written any wrappers. It's witchcraft. :)

    He made a few of his games run on regular Java and Android, which does indeed show that it can in fact be done.

    I'm a lousy architect but even I could map a subset of some API onto a superset thereof. Even more so if it's the same high level language.

    (That XMLVM stuff, however, was f-ing hardcore.)
     
  2. tolik

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    In my original post I told that it's possible, but nobody does that.
     
    #62 tolik, Jun 5, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2010
  3. oNyx

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    Sort of...

    I merely confirmed your guess. It's technically doable and at least one person has explored this option. I also pointed out that it isn't a zero effort thing, since the APIs are different.

    Oh well... let's just forget this discussion. I think this thread was about Silverlight only having like 10% market penetration, LOL.
     
  4. chillypacman

    chillypacman Guest

    What's wrong with using insults where relevant? When people are saying 'geewizz Microsoft is evil therefore anything Microsoft does must be avoided' they are being stupid, if they can't stand being called out as such then that's their problem, not mine.

    We can argue in the hypothetical, 'well what if Microsoft did this, or did that', however it seems people dislike arguing like that when it comes to other companies, like Apple. Yet people want to have their cake and eat it too, they want to give themselves the ability to dismiss a product based on its origins yet at the same time they don't want to dismiss other products based on its origins, instead giving it the benefit of the doubt constantly.

    The way I see it, screw origins, it's about the product itself. Never did I say Silverlight is great, better than Flash or anything of the sort, I'm cautiously optimistic about it but it doesn't look like Microsoft is as enthusiastic about it as before so its future is questionable at best.

    I don't take back the insults I've dished out, if someone rants and raves about how they're not going to use a product because it was developed by Microsoft then they are by definition stupid, are probably hypocrites and have no idea what they're talking about. Anyone who has any intelligence will recognize an argument dismissing a product in the way a certain someone was dismissing silverlight was childish and empty

    So hey, you can say my argument is made shallow by the fact I call people out on being stupid but the way I see it calling people out as stupid as as necessary as pointing out how wrong they are. Don't flaunt stupidity unless you want to be called out on it. You can be legitimately wrong but not stupid, you can dislike Silverlight for legitimate reasons and not be called out as stupid for it, but anyone who says 'I don't like Silverlight because Mcirosoft made it which is an evil monopolist' is an idiot and I'm sorry it hurts peoples feelings when I say that.
     
    #64 chillypacman, Jun 6, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 6, 2010
  5. Reactor

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Chillypacman, your definitions of how the term stupid can be used sound quite stupid to me.

    I totally agree with that. Why don't you just pass on the insults and stick to making appropriate comments on the topic? For the most part your points are solid. Your reasons for calling people names, not so much.

    Stay professional. We all want to fling mud now and then, but professionals choose not to, and that's one of the reasons you can tell they've actually grown up and have the capacity to argue a point in a more intelligent manner than calling everyone a poo-poo head. It's a good thing to be if you want people to take your points seriously.
     
  6. hippocoder

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    I conduct myself here how I would face to face, I think thats a fine rule for everyone, and feels like something you can have self respect for :)

    Remember that next time you type and dont forget the edit button (I've used it myself hehe)
     
  7. cliffski

    Moderator Original Member

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    Ok enough of this.

    I've met the guy you are calling stupid. He runs a very succesful game development company. He is respected, accomplished and doing well. I've never forced him to take an IQ test, but I'm pretty sure he isn't stupid. Nobody who can program a PC game is stupid, even if they disagree with you.
    And yes, I agree that a lot of peoples views about microsoft can be inexplicable. I'm generally a fan of them from a consumer POV, if not a technical one. I tend to support microsoft against their detractors.

    But calling someone stupid because they disagree with your evaluation of a certain companies way of conducting businesses is not clever.
    And doing it on a forum, to a moderator of that forum is even less clever.
    And persisting in that attitude to the extent that you've now drawn me, a second moderator here to get involved is even less clever than that.

    Lets behave like adults please. Hardly anyone gets banned from indiegamer, and thats how we would like to keep it.
     
  8. hippocoder

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    Thanks cliffski, bout time there was some maturity enforced :)
     
  9. Jack Norton

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    I agree, I'm not a fan but neither an hater of MS but chillypacman posts were starting a Gratuitous Insult Battle! :D
     
  10. tolik

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    Hi cliffski, could you stay on topic please and answer the questions?
     
  11. hippocoder

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    It's here. In about 6 months I estimate most of the new content that would have been flash or something else will be html5. I'm sure the ipad and new iphone 4 will speed this up, particularly with the WWDC annoucement saying that html5 apps will be unrestricted and open on these devices for all developers to play ball with.

    Can't really underestimate just how much clout apple have here.
     
  12. oNyx

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    http://mbtic.com/ddd
    http://mbtic.com/ddd-flash

    Work in progress. Same game code for both. Flash version still lacks input and sound though.

    JavaScript/Canvas version uses 2 files (3kb + 46kb [no-audio blob]) and the Flash version is one file (~68kb).

    As I briefly outlined earlier, this is the big idea. Targeting standards and having a Flash fallback without having to port the game.

    99.9% market penetration. F- YEA!

    Edit: Just heard that WebGL arrived on the Nokia N900 with the latest (regular!) firmware update.
     
    #72 oNyx, Jun 7, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2010
  13. hippocoder

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    Blitzmax (www.blitzmax.com) is set to "export" to java, C++, flash and html5.... all from one code base.

    I think thats cool during the migration period, but yeah, flash is doomed and so is silverlight. You can't really say either platform deserves to exist. Both flash and silverlight exist only to make the host company fatter - neither actually push the web forwards, unlike open standards such as webgl and html5.
     
    #73 hippocoder, Jun 8, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2010
  14. KNau

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    If you're talking gaming content you're completely sucking wind. I really hope that was just an attempt at trolling and not uninformed fanboyism again.
     
  15. hippocoder

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    Alright want to put money on it? I'm putting $10 on it for 6 months time, but you'll owe me if we see a 40% rise in html5 content on the web.

    You're making a *huge* mistake assuming I'm a fanboy. I don't give a shit, but I do have a giant dose of common sense.

    Yeah I'm talking gaming content. The moment haxe outputs to html5 (java/canvas) is the moment most serious flash developers want their content working on all iphones, ipads and macs.

    This isn't fanboyism, its realism.
     
  16. Bad Sector

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    haXe already outputs JavaScript. I used a HTML5 feature, the audio element, to do a dirty port of my Flash MOD Player to JavaScript (worked, there were some issues with the samples but i think i broke them somehow).

    Having said that the biggest problem for web games in HTML5 (except the huge established flash games network, which is actually the biggest non-technical problem) is sound support. Sound in HTML5 sucks. Firefox has a sound API but it's currently available only to Firefox.
     
  17. JGOware

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    wow.....that is just so rediculous, I had to erase my lengthy reply. :D
     
  18. andrew

    andrew New Member

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    This HTML5 talk is pure wackiness. Onyx, your loader is pretty cool, and I'm impressed at the technical achievement. But I can't see anyone making something even of the level of Farmville in HTML5.

    The last big flash game I worked on was 500+ .AS3 files and 200+ MB of animation and sound assets (before compilation), how on earth are you going to handle something that complicated in Javascript? What about vector animations? Audio engine? Network code? Sockets in javascript? Plus you get the great benefit of all your app code plainly visible in .JS files that the end user can download.

    I have no great love for Flash or Silverlight, and some great open standard would be nice, but HTML5 isn't it -- at least for gaming. You'll probably see streaming services like OnLive and Gaikai get traction before you actually see people playing Peggle in HTML5.

    - andrew
     
  19. hippocoder

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    It's not about if we agree or not - its happening. Certainly, sound needs work but when your html5 opengl app runs hardware accelerated and your flash app still slows down whenever you want to rotate something....

    ...things need to change.
     
  20. oNyx

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    You didn't see the Quake2 port then, I take it. They used GWT to compile Java to JavaScript there though. And yea, they used Web Sockets for multiplayer there.

    Did you take a look at my "plainly visible" code? It's here:

    http://mbtic.com/games/dadadash/ddd.min.js

    Its state is similar to minified byte code which has been decompiled, but hasn't been auto formatted yet. Also note that I used the rather tame YUI Compressor instead of Google's super aggressive Closure compiler.

    Decompiled Flash or Java is usually in a far more usable state. Well, if you decompile the Flash version you'll end up with a similar (albeit nicely formatted) mess, because I also used the minified code there.

    Also, JavaScript is actually a surprisingly good language. There are of course a few really horrible details, but if you know about them you can avoid them easily. It's also very refreshing to do some things in a very dynamic manner.

    For example I only need to put "foo.png" into some directory and then I can draw it right away in my code by writing something like:

    ctx.drawImage(media.image.foo, x, y);

    Or things like:

    media.sound.bar.play();

    Which will play the "bar" audio file, unless the client got the no-audio blob in which case it simply will do nothing.

    I really love that stuff. (Yea, it's these simple things like that that make my day.)

    You can use different inheritance models in JavaScript and also AOP stuff like mixins or traits (via Joose for example). Or you can write things in a very functional style if you like.
     

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