Revision Control for project: details?

Discussion in 'Game Development (Technical)' started by tentons, Mar 1, 2004.

  1. tentons

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    Just figured I'd say that I'm also using Subversion with Tortise. It's got more than a few features that CVS doesn't. And you can integrate it with Visual Studio 2003 with Ankh. :)
     
  2. GBGames

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    ** C & P from Dexterity **

    GBGames 07-11-2004 12:12 AM


    I'm just starting to get into my first commericial project. I have never used revision control before, and I am learning how to use subversion.

    My question is: What do you usually keep in your repositories (whether you use CVS/BitKeeper/Arch/etc)?

    I know source code and data files like audio, images, and scripts would go there, but do you also keep documentation? Design docs? Basically, is your entire project and its related files kept in revision control, or do you usually keep the design document outside of it in its own directory/server somewhere?

    Thanks!

    Jim Buck 07-11-2004 01:44 AM
    Source code, all docs related to the game, including contracts and design docs.. and also artwork.

    ggambett 07-11-2004 02:04 AM
    We use CVS, although Subversion may be worth a try (it's essentially CVS compatible but with additional stuff such as rename, directory move, and so on)

    We have everything there, including docs.

    serg3d 07-11-2004 05:05 AM
    Using CVS, keep source, docs, and part of artwork. Thinking about moving to Subversion.

    wazoo 07-11-2004 09:14 AM
    using cvsnt

    You're probably getting the picture from the previous posts, but it's a grand idea to put EVERYTHING and anything project related into version control..

    I'm currently running the cvsnt service piece on my server and have just about everything in there...project code, design docs, website, etc..

    My only problem is that bugzilla seems incredibly unfriendly to the win32 platform..so for now I'm just tracking bugs/changes to the project with a spreadsheet...(also in cvs of course).

    If you decide to go the CVS route, I heartily recommend checking out TortoiseCVS. It's a CVS client that plugs itself right into windows explorer. VERY handy and smooth..

    hth

    Rainer Deyke 07-11-2004 12:53 PM
    I just want to say that subversion rocks. I recently switched from CVS to subversion, and the latter is so much more pleasant than the former that I cringe every time I have to touch one of my old projects which are still in CVS.

    Oh, and I also keep everything in the repository. Code, art, design docs, and web site.

    GBGames 07-11-2004 01:36 PM
    I want to thank everyone for the info.

    As for CVS, I tried to learn it awhile back, but I had no project to work. It's difficult to learn something when you don't use it.

    At my univeristy's Linux User Group, we had Brian Fitzpatrick, one of the developers of Subversion, give a talk. It was very informative and amusing (he's a funny guy). As for CVS being stable, Brian mentioned that the codebase for it is just horribly hacked together. If you want to update it or fix it, it WILL crash. Subversion was made to replace CVS, and for the most part it works just like it "except when there was a compelling reason not to."

    So I decided to forget about CVS and I've started using Subversion. So far I've messed around with it, and now I am pretty confident in how to use it for some tasks, although I did come up with some problems that show I am not very familiar with how to use it still. The SVN book didn't cover some details though, such as personal choices like where most developers will keep their repositories (I had to ask in the IRC channel for that). And naturally project specifics like what to keep in the repository aren't covered (that's what this thread is for).

    Thanks again! B-)

    Justiciar 07-11-2004 09:38 PM
    I keep everything in our CM repository -- code, project metadata (number of defects, time per phase, defects per phase, etc.), business plans, design docs. Everything related to my business I keep there.

    I use Perforce as a CM tool. I like it alot, but the terminology for tasks can be a bit confusing at times...

    Anthony

    Mark Fassett 07-11-2004 10:35 PM
    Keep everything. And then back it up on a regular basis.

    I use Perforce. It's much better than just about anything else I've used - CVS, VSS, Subversion (although - with subversion, I gave up during the install). It's also cross platform.

    jaggu 07-17-2004 04:47 AM
    I also use Perforce. They offer a fully functional 2 user version which is really useful for us indies. Grab it off http://www.perforce.com/

    I tried a lot of revision control systems b4 settling on perforce. Never regretted it. Had untold horrors with CVS and its front-ends. Perforce is also very fast.

    Grimreaper 07-17-2004 07:21 AM
    Perforce simply rocks - the tool is great, their cross-platform support is great (i use it on BSD, linux and windows just fine), easy to use, best source/asset management app out there. IIRC, even MS licensed Perforce's code for their own use.

    grimreaper
     
  3. Bluecat

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    I'm going to install Subversion on my linux box and use that. I'm currently just backing up onto CD.

    I will be storing all relevant files. Code, art, sound and music, design docs, and even wip notes.
     
  4. Mike Boeh

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    Is there something bad about Visual Sourcesafe that I am unaware of?
     
  5. Bluecat

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    I know a lot of people hate Visual SourceSafe with a passion. I'm not one of them, but then I've never used it with a project that needed to store massive amounts of data like a game project would. As far as I've experienced it works fine when you are simply storing source code, and when the database is not huge. It really starts to have problems when the projects become really large.

    The only problem I have had with VSS in a project is when the IT department decided to move the database to a Linux box with a Samba filesystem. It became impossible for more than one person at a time to perform any operation. For a team of six this was quite a challenge. We ended up putting a glue stick in the middle of the room, and whoever had it was allowed to use VSS. It took a couple of months and a lot of harrasment of the IT guys to get the problem fixed. (Turned out it was a setting in Samba that locked the files in a way not compatible with Windows or VSS. It wasn't VSS' fault.)

    Having said that, I prefer other options to VSS. I've also used Perforce, and I loved it. A little bit of a learning curve, but it handled my config management perfectly. I do want a cheaper solution though, and a solution that scales, so I've decided to go with Subversion.
     
  6. Jim Buck

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    A lot of people at the prior studio I worked at claimed the database was corrupted very often while using VSS. I had used VSS for years and not once had this problem, but the difference is that I had worked with it on teams small in size, and the group that claimed corruption had a huge team. I use Perforce now and love it. You need to read the 165-page user's manual to "grok" it, but once you do, it's not a problem.
     
  7. Mark Fassett

    Moderator Indie Author

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    VSS had a history of corruption - I haven't seen any corruption from it since version 6 came out on any of the teams I was with that used it. However, I do prefer perforce, now - mostly because of it's cross platform capabilities.
     
  8. Mike Boeh

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    I use vss, mainly because it's so simple to use. Are there any other version control systems out there that are super-easy? I really have no desire to read a big doc in order to have version control! :cool:
     
  9. Mithril Studios

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    Hm, I don't know if I would say you have to RTM to grok perforce.

    I thought it was just a bit harder to understand than VSS, only because of the flexibility it gives you, and it's a concurrent CM tool.

    The big (original) reason why I switched from VSS to Preforce was the concern for having a corrupted database. As I've become more familiar with it, I've felt it's all around a better solution than VSS; quality, stability, and features.

    Worth giving a test drive, IMHO
    Anthony
     
  10. Nemesis

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    None that I know of.. it simply rocks.. especially when integrated with MS Visual Studio!
     
  11. Jeff Evertt

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    VSS (at least v5 and below) would get corrupt fairly often if you are dealing with a lot of data/users. Also, it doesn't support a lot of the nicer features of P4 - like changelists and branching. P4 also has a command line interface that is very easy to use for scripting. P4 also has VS integration, but isn't as nicely integrated as VSS.

    But, if you are a small team and are only familiar with VSS, I'd just stick with it. If you are getting bigger, I'd look at switching.

    -Jeff
    www.evertt.com
     
  12. gmcbay

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    I'm sort of just echoing things other people have said here but:

    Having used VSS for a while, it USED to have serious problems, pre 6.0. It is now quite usable and I haven't had a problem with it in years, except it doesn't scale very well to extremely large projects (I mean, REALLY big, millions of lines of code across thousands of files).

    For any reasonable indie project (that doesn't have programmers in multiple physical locations) VSS is just fine if you're using 6.0+.
     
  13. Nemesis

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    VSS Pre 6.0? That's way old!! That was like 10 years ago.. pre-millenial! :)

    In general:
    VS.NET 2003 requires VSS 6.0d

    VS.NET 2002 requires VSS 6.0c

    VC6 requires VSS 6.0a or 6.0b.. not sure.. anyway..that's old stuff now

    VS.NET 2002/3 + VSS 6.0c/d work together like a charm! I've worked on projects with 25+ people and never a glitch!
     
  14. Dan MacDonald

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    The only thing I dont like about VSS is the server has to be on the local network. I like to back my code up to sompelace other then another machine in my house. CVS works pretty well for that, and you can't beat the price...
     
  15. svero

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    I've been using VSS for years on big projects with multiple users, and on smaller projects and games etc... I've never had any problem with it. It integrates seamlessly with msdev. The only feature it doesnt have that I'd want is the ability to do remote version control now that I work with other people from home. There is a product that allows remote version control and mimics vss perfectly but it's quite expensive.
     
  16. Nemesis

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    With regards using VSS remotely, have you guys thought about sharing a folder (Simple File Sharing protocol) over the internet? For security you can have Windows authentication on it. That's how we've had it working for a while.

    Granted.. shared over the net it's not the fastest thing in the world.. but it works.

    Obviously, a version cotnrol system fine-tuned to work using a direct protocol over TCP-IP is likely going to be faster.
     
  17. Kai Backman

    Original Member Indie Author IGF Finalist

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    I have used CVS extensively for years and Perforce a few years now. I'm currently switching to SubVersion for a few reasons:

    - Ease of use. The TortoiseSVN client integrates easily into Windows explorer and the server is easy to set up on a Linux box
    - Support for distributed development. Subversions only requires the internet connection to be up when you are doing a commit. Also the line protocol is optimized for bandwidth. Good for patchy internet connections in both ends ..
    - Easier to control security and configure server. Working through Apache at either the standard http or https port and using standard Apache security features it was a breeze to set up the server.
    - Better performance/price. SVN is superior in several important aspects, and good enough in all others making a price of $0 quite appealing. Also, upgrades are also free, which most commercial vendors charge for.
     

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