Revenue Share

Discussion in 'Indie Business' started by camadro, Jan 28, 2008.

  1. AdamSchroeder

    AdamSchroeder New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2007
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is really an interesting offer.

    It is worth noting that MochiAds generally averages around .50cpm so in that instance the developer would do just as well having a MochiAd on the game. Of course if you don't let games with MochiAds appear on your site then that is a mute point.

    There are a lot of sites that offer to share revenue but that is a pretty intangible thing compared to a guaranteed rate per 1000 views. Or in your case $50 per 100,000 views.

    What might work well is to offer an advance on games you want to acquire. Guarantee them $250 for a non-exclusive and if the game is successful enough to have more then 500,000 views then you can start kicking in additional money. Depending on your traffic you might get a developer to accept this over a typical $350-$1000 non-exclusive license.

    Even with a smaller amount in $100-$200 range, I bet a lot of the developers on FlashGameLicense would be interested in working with you.

    Adam Schroeder
    FlashGameSponsorship
    FlashGameLicense
     
  2. Bad Sector

    Original Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,742
    Likes Received:
    5
    If you put " or java "between "flash" and "games", sure :)
     
  3. camadro

    camadro New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    :)
    Done
     
  4. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Messages:
    3,859
    Likes Received:
    2
    The problem you might have is that the same is true of the host site, if not more so. Unless there's a decent sized guaranteed minimum, you might struggle to find anyone capable of doing decent stuff.
     
  5. camadro

    camadro New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    The last stuff I looked at I thought Mochi was around 25 cent cpm. We will look into the downpayment method. I think in the long run if we only accept good games we can get a higher cpm in the future than Mochi. In the online space we are getting flooded with terrible games that is clogging up all of the script sites.
     
  6. camadro

    camadro New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0

    We would host the games free of charge
     
  7. camadro

    camadro New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    You would also not give up the rights to the game, if an online title would be a huge hit like TextTwist or something like that and you developed the game for a different format we would be cool with that.
     
  8. JoshuaSmyth

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ya know if I could make 4 really good browser based games per year, why would I put them on an online portal, why not use them to drive traffic to my own site?

    That way I could keep all the clutter out and have control over ads and ad placement, as well as any other potential revenue streams.

    If what you say is really true and it's the game that drives the traffic then I don't see any reason to sign any kind of exclusive hosting deal. Unless there was a nice advance involved :)

    I'm only mentioning this because I'm actually thinking about making more browser based games.

    You will probably get people interested in developing for online arcades, but I'm not sure if you'll be able to snatch the top developers without really good incentives.
     
  9. andrew

    andrew New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2007
    Messages:
    487
    Likes Received:
    0
    But, honestly, isn't that a pretty poor rate considering portals will pay $2-5K or more to exclusively sponsor a game? At your rate you'd need TWO MILLION views to equal that revenue.

    I don't buy that at all. Kongregate only has 2 games (out of 3000) which have over a million plays, and only 9 over 500K. Newgrounds seems to have similar numbers. Traffic can be very exponential. You might get 25K plays in the first few days, but that tails off quickly.

    I also don't see how this differs from Kongregate's ad revenue sharing? They give 25-50%...
     
  10. camadro

    camadro New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0

    You will still be able to get credit for your game and you still own the writes to the game if you put it on our site. In the online market you need to have a lot of people going to the site and add a good game every week so you can develop an audience for different types of game. Putting a game on our site would be giving your game a jump start on getting eyes to the game. Over 1.5 million people would see the game in the first month.
     
  11. camadro

    camadro New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0

    I think that has a lot to do with them letting every game be put up. We are selective on our games. We have several games that do over 100 thousand game plays a month for eight years running.
     
  12. MrPhil

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for that. It all makes more sense now. I've never worked with flash, but I've heard is it difficult to work with. But a shot at $7000 might motivate me to take a closer look.
     
  13. AdamSchroeder

    AdamSchroeder New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2007
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Kongregate is currently relatively small in size although they are growing fast. In my opinion Kongregate will soon be one the largest and most influential game portals. However, right now there are many sites that have 10x (or more) the traffic they generate.

    The 'long tail' of a game is completely true.

    Storm the House 2 - a relatively basic flash game with some addicting 'upgrade' mechanics has had 25 Million view over the last 18 months, across 5000+ sites that carry the game. It is still getting 1.5 Million/month and has maintained that rate steadily for the last year. If MochiAds was on that game those 1.5M views could be worth $500-$750 of passive income month after month.

    5 Differences - has achieved nearly 9 million views in the 4 months it's been out. It's long tail is will probably be similar to Storm the House, its around 2 Million/month now.

    Imagine owning 10 games like these?

    We also believe that the current cpm rates for in-games ads is really low and it is likely to grow in the future as the market matures.

    I know it seems like I'm a MochiAds poster boy but currently there isn't really any competition that is publicly available.

    I do want to point out one really interesting thing about MochiAds. You still retain complete control over those ads, in that you can actually replace them with your own ad at anytime.

    So you release game 1 with MochiAds on it and collect the ad money. Its popular and its getting that wonderful 50k/day plays.

    Six months later you release a sequel to the game. You put the game on your site exclusively. Then you update MochiAds so that the 1000s of copies of your first game spread around the net are now advertising the sequel ON YOUR SITE. How high of a click through rate do you think you can achieve with an ad that says 'Like this game? Play the sequel free! Its better in every way. Just click here'.

    Once your new game has got it's audience and run its course you put the MochiAds back on.


    Anyways... a bit back to the topic. If a site doesn't allow MochiAds, but is willing to offer a revenue share its definitely worth considering. This means the site is basically giving you views that would otherwise be impossible to obtain. Personally, I would not take the time to upload a game purely on a revenue sharing basis unless I knew for a fact the site was going to draw incredible traffic (like MiniClip, Shockwave, BigFishGames etc.)

    I've done this a few time with smaller sites. It almost always takes a few hours to get everything sorted, testing, fix problems, talk to people, etc. Most of times I've taken the time and trouble to do this, it hasn't paid off. However if someone is willing to guarantee a certain amount then I am much more willing to spend the time.

    I'm doing one now where the only potential reward is winning a 'contest' with a relatively modest prize. The ONLY reason I'm taking the time to do this is to help out the site and hopefully start up a relationship which might grow into something bigger in the future through FlashGameSponsorship or FlashGameLicense. If I was thinking purely in terms of a developer I wouldn't have bothered.
     
  14. JoshuaSmyth

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah, I certainly see some of the benifits for sure. Especially as a launch strategy.

    How do you handle highscore savings and stuff like that, do you allow developers access to an SDK for that kind of thing?

    But I'm just thinking as a player I would rather go to an online game portal that had maybe 50 really good games, rather than 2000+ games that I have to wade through.
     
  15. emotionrays

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Once we had an idea to allow developers to submit their online games to our webite, and to give them a rights to post any ads and own adsenses there. I.e. our hosting, our traffic, their revenue. And we benefit from the promotion of our website and sales of downloadable games. But I wasn't sure that it might be interested to developers.

    If this idea sounds good, we can do that :)
     
  16. cybermonk

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'd be very interested in this, if you're willing to link to a special page on my site containing the game (like you're doing now with the BFG games)!
     
  17. emotionrays

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Its OK, but I would like to see our logo on that page :) I.e. it should have our "look-n-feel", and no illegal and 18+ ads.
     
  18. cybermonk

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    What other sites do (see heavygames for an example), is to put the other site in a frame, and place their own logo at the top.
    And obviously I don't display illegal or 18+ ads, as I'm running a flash portal that is also visited by children.
     
  19. emotionrays

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    What Big Fish Games do, is to put their own header with a clickable logo on every page. Any reason to move from this to anything like this? My goal is to make customers think that we host these games, and not getting them from another gaming portal. I don't want a customer who find a good online game at our website to go to another website to play it because he saw a header of that website. I want him to come to our website again to play it.

    Well, I don't know if ads traffic is enough reward for this. :(

    If you think that we can discuss it, maybe we should go in private conversation? So I will share some statistics, and you will be able to make a decision. Can you drop me a message to kostya [at] emotionrays [dot] com?

    ps. I was kidding about the illegal ads. Looks like it was a bad joke :)
     

Share This Page

  • About Indie Gamer

    When the original Dexterity Forums closed in 2004, Indie Gamer was born and a diverse community has grown out of a passion for creating great games. Here you will find over 10 years of in-depth discussion on game design, the business of game development, and marketing/sales. Indie Gamer also provides a friendly place to meet up with other Developers, Artists, Composers and Writers.
  • Buy us a beer!

    Indie Gamer is delicately held together by a single poor bastard who thankfully gets help from various community volunteers. If you frequent this site or have found value in something you've learned here, help keep the site running by donating a few dollars (for beer of course)!

    Sure, I'll Buy You a Beer