RetroRunner

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by meemoe_uk, Mar 19, 2009.

  1. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Well, whatever.

    If someone says to me "This game is excellent and it took me years", I expect it to actually be excellent. When I realise later that it is indeed not even at alpha and is something that should've taken 6 days, you're gonna get both barrels.

    For that I make no apologies whatsoever. This is meant to be a forum for professional independent game developers.

    I mean, the graphics truly suck ass. I understand they're meant to be retro, but lets take a look at the original game. The spectrum version had better graphics!

    If otoh you ask me for advice on how to program games, you'll get plenty of positive encouragement. Just don't fart on me and tell me it's perfume.
     
  2. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    This links into your thing about vsync locking. Most games allow you to turn it off because doing so doesn't affect the speed things move. Your game either runs at full tilt or you have the default speed for the man very wrong indeed - I couldn't control him at all on my beast machine at work. Not that this should tax a 486 so I don't have a clue what the actual problem might be.
     
  3. meemoe_uk

    meemoe_uk New Member

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    I'm taking your advice Matt.

    >6 years is a typo, right ?
    >Surely you mean days ?

    Here's my reply to applewood

    thankyou for taking the time to comment on my game

    I'm ok to go around this forum following AppleWoods 'acceptable insult' example now? And I'll get the same pleasent response? You'll have to be patient with me. I'm used to forums where such insults are looked down upon.

    >it just feels awkward and clunky.
    When I was a young adult I went through a strange period with respect to games. I found I had no patience for new ones. I'd feel frustrated that my habits learnt on prior games worked against me on new ones. I felt all the games that I'd played just a few years early were great while new ones were rubbish. I deleted several games off my HD for being annoying, many of them are now considered awesome games, one of which was starcraft. What was going on? Later, I realised that I'd lost a certain awe for games, and it was this awe that held me to play through the 1st few hours of gameplay. I didn't need to be patient to learn the control system, like no player in 1994 needed to be patient with Doom or Wipeout, we didn't care if felt awkward as hell, we were in awe of gfx. In the 80s, a computer game alone was awesome enough to captivate an audience. In the 90's it had to have good graphics. And what now? Better gfx? For me there is no return to the awestruck days. Games I love like cavestory and FF2,3 which I only played quite recently, weren't enjoyable for the 1st few hours while I wasn't used to the game. It was simply frustrating wrestling with the control system and other unfamilar quirks. I got over the 'end of awe' days by simply being patient with games, giving them a chance. Now I can enjoy games better.

    When people reply and say 'I played the game for 5 minutes and it felt clunky and awkward', they sound too much like myself 10 years ago. I can't fully respect that point of view.
     
    #23 meemoe_uk, Mar 25, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2009
  4. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    I'd give this up as a bad job, bud.

    You can throw your own insults around right now - there're no rules, but you won't have any credibility as you first have to earn some. That means offering good advice, showing off good work, etc. When you've done that for a bit, you'll be listened to. Until then, you'll just appear to be yet another troll.

    I don't think anyone really cares tbh. If you can't take criticism, keep your head below the parapet or don't show off something dire and claim it's excellent. I'm amazed you can't figure out why you're getting such a hard time tbh.
     
  5. meemoe_uk

    meemoe_uk New Member

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    Ah, I think I know what the prob is. Your not the 1st to complain on this. I'm a hardcore gamer, you're not. I like to play games like castlevania R-type, un-Squadron, speedball2 at around 180-200% normal game speed on my emulators. Fabulous gaming fun I tell ya!
    When I play old lode runner games they seem ludicriously slow. The RR 'normal'setting is slightly slower than I prefer, while the slow setting is just plain too slow for me. I know I'm different to most gamers, but if you'd all just tolerate the adjustment to high speed gaming, it's a whole new level of fun.

    Funny, I find games like Unreal Tournament are plenty fast enough for me. Am I the only one that finds there is a large disparity between action game speeds?

    Since others have also mentioned it, perhaps your right, it would be prudent to have a slower speed setting. But then, I worry that players won't ever make the move up to high speed gaming, which may be integral to RR fun.

    In the mean time, don't get frustrated with RR's fast speed, see it as a chalenge!:cool:

    This isn't the 1st time a game has been put down because of it's high speed. Super skidmarks got mixed reviews. Some say, includng myself and my gamer mates, that it was the best TD racing game ever made, while others threw the game away in immediate disgust. I saw one non gamer women go into a 2 minute asphxiating laugh in reaction to trying to play Sskidmarks because she realised she couldn't cope with the speed. The power of high speed games, oh yeah, only the priviledged few can appreciate it.
     
    #25 meemoe_uk, Mar 25, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2009
  6. meemoe_uk

    meemoe_uk New Member

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    Apple you are way too confrontational.
    >You can throw your own insults around right now
    I'm not going to, I don't like doing so. I'm amused by your method though. Unobjectively insult people, then accuse them of insulting you. It's back to front.
    I've IDed your insult. Are you going to show me any one of my insults you keep accusing me of throwing?

    By the way, if you want awkward, try playing old lode runner games at increased speed on your emulators, then you might appreciate some of the work that's gone into RR to make it playable.
     
  7. Maupin

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    This thread got me curious enough to try it. My guy also shot off at a super fast pace, and got stuck after reading the first sign. I wasn't able to do anything else so quit.
     
  8. meemoe_uk

    meemoe_uk New Member

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    It could be a bug maupin. How long was he stuck for before you gave up? He's only spose to be stuck for 1 sec. After that it can only be wrong controls. Have you checked the controls?
     
  9. JGOware

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    "Most gamers I know tick the 'no Vsynch' box when given the option."

    You're kidding right? Most casual gamers have never even heard of vsync. Always code your finished games to run with vsync turned on. The only time no vsync is even remotely useful is to test your game loop full out. If you're not going to take the time to code time based or fixed logic code, then at the least put vsync in and you'll have some frame rate throttle based on monitor refresh speed.
     
  10. Mattias Gustavsson

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    These days, there's so many products competing for peoples attention. If you don't make it easy (real easy) for people to get into and start playing your game, they're going to pass over it in favor of something else.

    As an example, here's a game with a strong retro feel, real simple graphics, which is fun and easy to get into, and very well presented despite its simplicity:Don't look back.
     
  11. Maupin

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    He was stuck for at least twenty seconds while I tried all sorts of keys. Arrow keys, adsw, space, enter, etc.
     
  12. Nexic

    Indie Author

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    So let's get this right, you think:

    - It's the best lode runner game ever.
    - There is no need to spend time working on graphics.
    - It's the player's job to make your graphics look presentable by changing their settings.
    - The fact that it runs way too fast to be playable is apparently a good thing, because that's how you like it.
    - All bugs are the fault of the player.

    You need to drop this way of thinking if you want to become a respected game developer.
     
  13. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Hmmm. How do you know what my favourite games types are? I'd put you straight but it's clear what you read is different from what's written so it's be pointless.

    Actually, I didn't insult you. And I didn't accuse you of insulting me. Wasting my time maybe, but not directly insulting me.

    I've no idea what "IDing" means, but I'd be interested to see just one of the places where I accuse you of throwing insults.

    Please go troll somewhere else. Or grow up. Or both.
     
    #33 Applewood, Mar 25, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2009
  14. meemoe_uk

    meemoe_uk New Member

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    >He was stuck for at least twenty seconds while I tried all sorts of keys. Arrow keys, adsw, space, enter, etc.

    Well it must be a bug. I need to find and test it a PC like yours because I've not had such a prob on those I've tested it on so far. Will get on with it. Thanks.

    Hi Matt, I agree that 'don't look back' is a model for the 'optimise quick get into' principle.
    I'm concerned that such games feel too familiar. There's something wrong with a game striving above anything else to feel like every other game in an effort to minimize introduction awkwardness. It's like striving to be as generic as possible. There's got to be a balance, new stuff at the cost of awkwardness.
    I do much prefer it though compared to the other method of minimizing intro awkwardness - Massive amounts of 'bubble wrapping' aka long drawn out tutorials, that too many games these days come with, which simply replace one problem with another.
     
  15. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    LOL, I can almost feel the petulance. Did you stamp your foot? :)

    You seem genuinely shocked at the response you're getting to your announcement. If you think that taking six years to produce this is going to impress anyone then you should seriously rethink your presentation

    Seriously, there are many people on this board, in fact many in this very thread, that could produce a better and more finished work in six days. I'm one of them, nexic is another and matthias a third. Apologies to the others for not writing an exhaustive list, but having just looked down it I think we all could.

    This thread would've turned out very differently if you'd posted your program and asked how to turn it into a marketable game. To claim this is 6 years worth of work, even part-time, and it's the dogs bollocks is just so far out of whack with reality that I'm starting to think this whole thread is some sort of forum-based "candid camera" stunt.
     
  16. Adrian Cummings

    Indie Author

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    Whilst I have personally seen more gameplay in an old Amiga bootblock loader, I do wonder sometimes why you get drawn into these threads Applewood... don't you all have some paying work to do or something LOL :)
     
  17. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    So do I tbh.

    What touches me off is not sub-par work, though that's bad enough, but it's when people tell me their sub-par work is soooo very good. (And definitely when it opens with post #1.) I guess I take it personally being someone who's actually trying to do things properly.

    And right now I'm doing indie stuff again. :)
     
  18. AlexWeldon

    AlexWeldon New Member

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    I've often defended people from Applewood's wrath in the past, but having gotten to know him better personally, I understand it better - he's very good at what he does, and has been doing it a long time, and I tend to have the same reaction when it comes to bad graphic design.

    If someone shows me a really awful design and says "I'm just starting out, and I know this doesn't look right, but any advice is appreciated," I'll be polite and helpful. If they show up on a design forum posting crap that's just clip art with a bunch of Photoshop filters indiscriminately applied and say it's something they actually took money for and look like they're fishing for compliments, I'll get angry, because it that kind of attitude is an insult to all the professional designers out there who went to school and practiced for years to get where they are.
     
  19. Mattias Gustavsson

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    For me, it's not so much a matter of feeling that it is an insult when people pass of bad stuff as good. What ticks me off is when someone get feedback from people (however harshly worded), and instead of appreciating the fact that someone's even taken the time to comment, they go off explaining why the person commenting is wrong.

    I'd love it if I got this many answers when I posted something for feedback - even if it was people pointing out flaws and things they don't like :D Criticism, in all forms, is a help to improve.
     
  20. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Thanks, Alex - you've made me blush now :)

    Whilst I did post a few helpful bits, my "six years?" comment wasn't an attempt to help. I thought he was taking the piss, so I gave him some back. I still can't believe it can take anyone that long even to make something that's good!
     
    #40 Applewood, Mar 26, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2009

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