Request for Feedback... RomanBowl

Discussion in 'Feedback Requests' started by mcopley, Sep 7, 2006.

  1. mcopley

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    ...removed feedback request announcement since I've removed the trial/beta/feedback version and am close to releasing a final version soon which incorporates a lot of the feedback I've received here -- and makes for a much better game I think.

    Thanks again everyone,

    Mike Copley
    CopleyGames
     
    #1 mcopley, Sep 7, 2006
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2006
  2. dxgame

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    "38 Megs" And chance of a much scaled down version for feedback purposes? I'm on dial up and I can't/won't download anything past 8meg, just takes too long. :(
     
  3. mcopley

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    I was kind of afraid of the download size being a bit of a turn off. I'm definitely working on optimizing my file sizes, mainly converting my images from PNG to JPG which should dramatically reduce the size -- that will take some time, but hopefully not too long.
     
  4. Mike Boeh

    Administrator Original Member

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    I love arcadey football games like this, and I think this game could be really cool.... But the action needs to be zippier, especially the passing.... I would also suggest that the guy running automaticallly just follows the curson instead of having to click....

    Also, when I throw an incomplete pass, why is the ball marked where i threw the pass from?!?!?! Also, when the opposing team's ball carrier went off screen, it didn't scroll to follow... Also it says what down it is, but not how many yards to go for the first down?

    It's neat, but it needs lots of cleanup IMO. But with just a couple days work, this game could waste a lot of time for me :) I like the exta-point idea.
     
  5. Sybixsus

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    I also thought this had potential, but it was frustrating to play, and that's not good.

    First thing I thought ( before I even played, just browsing the readme ) was that I don't want to hold down a button to move. Automatic moving would definitely be good.

    Secondly, passing is a bit hit and miss. Most of the time, my receivers ran in the opposite direction of the ball when I threw it to them. Throw it just ahead of them and they would turn around and run back towards me instead of heading for the ball. Very frustrating.

    Thirdly, again I'm going to agree with Mike. I really don't like the idea of losing ground on an incomplete pass. I know it's intentional, not a bug, but it doesn't make sense. You have a simplified version of football here. Less players, more action. It's contrary to that to have harsh penalties like this.

    Defending is very difficult to do. I lost track of where the ball was every time. As soon as it's snapped, I never see it again. Now I *can* follow the highlight under the player, but that doesn't come naturally. I'm looking for the ball, and I can't see it. Frustrating.

    Tackling seems unnecessarily difficult too. I came charging across the field to a receiver, and hit the tackle button, hitting him square in the side. I bounced off and he ran on to score. This happened again and again. On the plus side, I later found out that I could take advantage of the same poor tackling when I was on offense, but I was expecting to get tackled so it took a while to notice. I'd prefer the tackles to be a bit more meaningul.

    Also in general, it's perhaps a bit slow. I know it's intended to be a bit more casual, not too hardcore, but it could use a bit of action, a bit of speed.

    Presentation and graphics were top notch, and I thought everything gelled nicely. It just really needs some major tweaking in the mechanics and controls from my perspective. And perhaps a rule change or two, to be more consistent with the overall nature of the game.

    It could be *very* good.


    I don't think there are first downs. You get five downs, and that's it. You score or you don't. It does need to be explained better, as do all the other rule changes, but I'm ok with this one. It encourages a more adventurous, aggressive play style which seems to fit with the nature of the game.
     
  6. mcopley

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    I want to say that these are exactly the sort of remarks I'm looking for, I appreciate it -- thanks guys.

    I agree that the pacing definitely needs work. I also think that making tackles easier to land for the player, yet keeping them as they are for the AI would make playing the defense much more fun.

    I do need to make it clearer who the ball carrier is when you are on defense. I'm open to ideas as far as how to keep both the ball carrier and the guy you are currently controlling on defense both visible at the same time, there are a couple of strategies I could use -- either an edge of screen indicator, or have the camera split the difference, or something.

    You guys have given me lots of things to try out and explore. I like the automatic player movement idea.

    The reason behind the ball being spotted where it was passed was to offset the rule that allows you to pass to anyone at any time. But perhaps it is nevertheless too harsh -- I'm not sure.

    Mike Copley
    CopleyGames
     
  7. Sybixsus

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    Ah. Well see I didn't know you could pass to anyone at any time. I thought it was only once, and only to receivers. If I have time tonight, I'll have another go and see if I change my mind now that I know that.
     
  8. sulaiman

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    If you're not working torwards a strict football simulation you might want to reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutant_League_Football. I think if you took your game over the top it would be really fun and have crazy action.

    The pacing and control could be improved. Perhaps faster running and harder looking collisions. Have you tried WASD+mouse type setup for controlling players? I just couldn't find the current controls comfortable for this type of game.

    Multiplayer would be good additional feature. Keep on adding the little things to your game and you'll get it to where you want it.
     
  9. jmc

    jmc
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    Awesome, finally an indy game in the indy forums ( became too much the casual-portal-forum lately ) !

    superb, loved the game, needs some tweaking but has great potential!!!
    Jmc.
     
  10. Mike Boeh

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    If you can find it, a really good example of mouse control in an American football game is "Gridiron" for the Amiga. What a great game that was.

    Personally I think you should only be able to throw to receivers once, just like regular american football, that's what I was expecting- and I hope others are too....

    I have always wanted to make an American football game that played like sensible soccer- I want to play that more than any game :)
     
  11. Sybixsus

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    I thought I was the only person who ever bought/liked that. Over here it was packaged up in a weird green envelope and I only ever saw it once, in an obscure little game shop in Southampton. I snatched it up and I thought it was an amazing game. It didn't have all the polish and pizazz of TV Sports Football ( which was also an amazing game ) but the play calling, play designing and mouse controls were more than enough to make up for that.
     
  12. cyrus_zuo

    cyrus_zuo New Member

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    At first I was really excited...but then reality sunk in...

    I played Blitz this last week with my brother and everything that game does well should be copied...
    Namely
    - Faster pace (though with notably more time in the pocket)
    - MUCH easier...when I finish with negative yardage and giving up 4 points on safteys in the first half there is a SERIOUS problem. Why would I keep playing? This game certainly isn't the only offender, but it floors me how often games are made with really simple rule sets, but really difficult gameplay.
    - I don't like being penalized so much, it makes a difficult experience feel much more difficult
    - Tackling should be much simplier
    - Stat-me! Stats are measurements of success...overuse them! Give me players with names and abilities...even if I can't change them, at least I can show how well they did in a single game/half/quarter/whatever.
    - Team choices with various strengths (in simplistic strong defense, weak offense) format would be nice.
    - Really over the top would be Tigers or other creatures in the arena...something of a Gladiator feel maybe? That's pushing it though...

    Nothing you haven't already heard, so I don't add to much here except another person who would love to play a football game that was indie and good...there are several sport fans around and they love sport games.
     
  13. mcopley

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    All great feedback so far guys.

    So I wonder if the consensus is that the rules should mimic more like American Football, in other words only allow a single pass over the line of scrimmage, incomplete passes just result in loss of down, etc.

    Having a greater distinction between the two different teams might be a good idea in terms of how they play. I provide some stats at the end of the game. I have to remember that even though I may think the game is easy [ only because I've played it so much ], that doesn't make it so and am glad everyone is chiming in about that.

    I should probably make things like the tackles and pass completions [ in addition to being easier and clearer to pull off ] have a more grandious feel to them when they happen to reward the player a bit more.

    As a personal note, I consider myself a true indie -- I made the game entirely on my own with the motivation to make something different from the myriad of puzzler clones out there. I'm glad that people here consider the game to have potential.
     
  14. cyrus_zuo

    cyrus_zuo New Member

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    I think it definitely has potential :)

    I do like the multiple passing thing and think it is quite distinctive (or is it just rugby?). If you work in a quick 'how to play' piece showing how you can make multiple passes I think that is a positive.

    I think it is good to error on the side of WAY to easy, especially as the developer. Then add in levels where the computer reacts faster or the game play is harder for those who seek it. Halflife 2 Episode 1 has some interesting numbers about difficulty levels. (http://www.steampowered.com/status/ep1/) roughly 20% of people who played manually changed the difficulty to easy...that is very interesting considering who the HL2 audience is. There have other similar studies that show that the results are rather typical.
     
  15. Mike Boeh

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    You know why it's still my all time favorite football game?

    Because it's the only one where passing wasn't just "picking the open receiver and pressing a button". Because of the mouse control, you actually had to lead your receiver and put the ball in the right position to be caught... You could intentionally throw behind a covered guy and stuff like that.... All the modern football games have it wrong when it comes to that- I can't stand them!

    I actually designed my entire playbook and ran the "wishbone" offense... I played my college roommate almost every day for 3 years, and had a record of 189-0. Then, my senior year, he finally defeated me, and went running down the halls screaming... and that bastard never played me again!

    Anyway, back on topic- I think Roman Bowl could be modified to play similar to that within a couple days. Just have the active player run towards the cursor, and for passing, just point and click where you want the ball to go.... Other than that, it just needs to be a lot snappier and follow the traditional rules more.

    PS: It came in the same packaging in the States too... A lot of games were packaged that way over here back then....
     

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