Re-make mania!

Discussion in 'Indie Business' started by kglarsen, Feb 3, 2010.

  1. kglarsen

    kglarsen New Member

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    As far as I can see the internet is getting more or less flodded with indie game studios advertising for what!? Nothing more than forgettable and boring remakes of games from the 80's and 90's.
    People don't want that anymore! (Besides a very small segment of retro nerds - but they would probably play the original anyways).

    I just think that some developers fall into the trap by thinking: "Ah, I remember that great game I used to play on my Amiga when I was 9, it was such a good game, I'm gonna make my own version of that" - When it was great back then, then it must be a great game today...... WRONG!

    I've experienced that many times before, when I think back of a retro game, I find a PC version of it, and it turns out, that it's pretty boring and I regret I wasted the time finding and downloading it..... And I loose the illusion that it was a great game.

    My point is - To make your indie games sell better, originality is the key! I think many indie game developers could benefit from spending more time on coming up with "the good idea". How you get the good idea is of course different from person to person, but mine tends to come to me out of the blue. When I sit down and think hard on coming up with good original game ideas - the ideas suck!

    So the sentence is the same as with the trailers - step it up!
     
  2. Teeth

    Original Member

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    Popcap rang. They told me to tell you that you are wrong.
     
  3. cymon

    cymon New Member

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    Just a thought, here. Just my 2 cents.

    If retro remakes were really such a bad idea, if nobody's playing them, if nobody wants them, then answer me this: Why are they still being made? And not just being made, but being made in droves.

    I mean, I'm sorry that your glasses are rose-colored.

    You want originality? Start hanging around experimentalgameplay.com or popenkast. And after hanging around there and realizing that there are as many stinkers in new and original as there are in remaking something tried and true, when you've had your fill of bad games you have to install before you can run and that leave a residue on your system that nothing short of a reformat will clear out, after you've realized how utterly brain dead your previous comment is, come on back here, sit down, and have yourself a heaping helping of crow.

    I'm not saying there's anything wrong with original games over remakes. I'm saying there's room enough in this world for both. And if you don't like remakes stop downloading them.

    (EDIT: Wow, was that really my first post here? Na, can't be. Why was I already all registered then? Hmm, mysteries of the universe.)
     
  4. zoombapup

    Moderator Original Member

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    Niiice. Short and sweet :)
     
  5. princec

    Indie Author

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    The trick with retro games is to... well, not make them retro, actually.

    I think we've got it down to a fine art.

    Cas :)
     
  6. kevintrepanier

    Original Member Indie Author

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    Great ideas? A dime a dozen. Realisation is the only thing that matters.
     
  7. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    I think he's actually near-missed with most of his points, tbh.

    There are such a wealth of remakes because hobbiests do indeed just want to recreate their old favourties and get em working, and that's great. I suspect a lot of the current pro's started this way, and I know for sure that I did!

    What I wish they wouldn't do though, is then put these things on sale. They won't actually sell any, but they take shelf space away from people trying to do this as a proper business.

    But, the reason I post is to point out that the problem with clones and remakes is not that people redo the old ideas, but they redo the old games. ie the new ones look like the originals.

    Don't make an RPG that looks like a C64 emulation, make one that looks like it belongs on my PC in 2010 and I might buy it.
     
  8. PoV

    PoV
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    It's not a simple question of "don't clone", since few games made these days are truly original. There's entire debates and arguments here and all over the internet about why it's a bad idea and all that. It fragmented this very community, all the quick-buck entrepreneurs asking silly questions like "what should I clone to make money" and all. No, anyone that's serious about this business will not answer that question. If you can't even come up with a product, you're not as serious as I, and not worth my advice. My tip, if you catch me posting a stupid response to your question, then you've asked a stupid question and I've decided to troll you. Telling people they're wrong hasn't worked, so I have fun instead now. :cool:

    If you put next to no effort in to understanding the games market, or marketing in general, then you shouldn't be surprised when you come back a month later to find you sold less copies than you have fingers. Everything you want to know is out there, here even. But you're probably not going to realize it's significance until you've made a project or two that's completely bombed. It's why we sometimes say you have to fail at this before you learn how to make money doing it. That's also why we say don't quit your day job.

    There's no easy way to make money creating games. Instead, there are opportunities. If you're doing it right, you're in a situation where you can jump on any opportunity that falls within your skillset or portfolio. It's only easy when you were ready for it.

    And now, I go back to being a troll.
     
  9. princec

    Indie Author

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    It's not just the looks - sadly they often try and make them play like it's 1982 as well. I keep saying to people that all those old games just seemed good at the time, but actually, they are a totally shit design for the downloadable market. Punishing, unforgiving, difficult. Designed to tempt 10p pieces from your pocket while you drank lager, in short doses of action between pints.

    Cas :)
     
  10. zoombapup

    Moderator Original Member

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    Isnt it more of a product of the toolset than anything? I mean I'm bored stupid with all the 2d tile platformer games now. Sure they're fun to make and all, but there are so many that its almost a parody of itself.

    Why arent people even interested in doing different things? I mean I wouldnt mind if they even did the old worms trick of using pixel collision and masking instead of tiles!

    Its just so amiga.
     
  11. Jamie W

    Original Member Indie Author

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    I did that! It's a complete lack of imagination on the part of the developer! :p
     
  12. JGOware

    Indie Author

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    I'm right there with ya, but let's face it, the market isn't really supporting retro inspired games financially. That's been well documented on this site. Seems they love to play em, they just don't want to pay for them.

    http://www.charliesgames.com/

    Charlie's posted he's doing well with a "pay what you want" ordering system. Perhaps that would work well on these retro inspired games. And btw, if you want to see the genre kicked up a notch, check out his games. wow...
     
  13. chillypacman

    chillypacman Guest

    Targetting a tech savvy portion of the market naturally leaves you open to piracy.
     
  14. zoombapup

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    True, but there really isnt any other portion of that particular market to target. Which is kind of the point really. Dont make retro games to make money, although they get a fair bit of fanboy noise going it seems.

    I like the ideas in many of them, I just wish we'd see some variety in terms of moving away from 2D tilescrollers.
     
  15. PoV

    PoV
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    Sure there is. Just 'cause you're tech-savvy doesn't mean you're old.
     
  16. Bad Sector

    Original Member

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    How is VVVVVV doing? Its total oldschool art, tile based, almost C64 looking (minus the washed out colors) and from the shots it gives me a "generic oldschool platformer" vibe, yet i keep hearing about it all the time especially from people i wouldn't expect to be interested in such a game.

    I need to check it out at some point i suppose.
     
  17. schizoslayer

    schizoslayer New Member

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    VVVVVV is doing very well for itself. I bought a copy on the strength of the demo and I know alot of other people who have as well.

    This entire thread is another classic misunderstanding though. It's not retro remakes that don't sell. It's BAD retro remakes that don't sell. In the same way that just plain bad games don't sell.

    VVVVVV is a good game with good word of mouth thus it's selling.

    If somebody makes a really good version of Breakout or Space Invaders then that too will sell. The problem only occurs when people make bad versions of them.

    Lets change this thread to "Stop Making Bad Games".
     
  18. PoV

    PoV
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    I wouldn't bet on repeating VVVVVV's success. VVVVVV was totally a right place, right time product, and because it was Terry who made it. Your so called "Jet Set Willy" genre hasn't had a real gem in it for many years, and now it's served.
     
  19. Bad Sector

    Original Member

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    So you mean that the game doesn't matter, its just luck? :p

    Also, i don't know who Terry is/was. Ok i've seen the name in TIGSource's forums a few times but i've seen hundreds of names there :p.

    Is it a Jet Set Willy clone? If so, then again it isn't about the being a clone but being a game that isn't made every day at least a couple of times.

    Talking about old games that aren't made often... who is going to make a decent Dizzy clone? :p
     
  20. zoombapup

    Moderator Original Member

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    I wasn't implying anything to do with age, I was implying that the tech savvy market who is interested in retro games is probably quite small in comparison to the whole market. A niche of a niche if you will.

    So I definitely wouldn't be surprised if all of the tile-platformer games that are being produced (and there are lots if my perception is correct) only very few will be commercially viable. I know its true of all games, but its probably MORE true if you start out with a smaller market that typically isn't used to paying for things.
     

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