PTK vs raw DX7/OpenGL

Discussion in 'Game Development (Technical)' started by 20thCenturyBoy, Nov 23, 2004.

  1. 20thCenturyBoy

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    I realise this question may be a bit "finger in the air" but anyway...

    Say I wanted to develop a side scroller platformer in the style of the old Commander Keen. You know the sort of thing, simple colourful sprites, that can be rotated, stretched etc. Say 3 layers of parallax scrolling. Would a library such as PTK be useful for that sort of game, and how much time could I save by using PTK rather than doing it all from scatch in DX or OpenGL? Assume I have the artwork :)

    I have a good knowledge of C++ and have written Windows games before (GDI based) but I have ZERO knowledge of DX or OpenGL. I have a copy of "Tricks of the Windows Game Programming Gurus" that teaches basic DirectDraw using DX7 so I could use that to get up to speed. But I don't want to waste my time if existing libraries such as PTK can do the same job easier.

    20thCB
     
  2. Mark Fassett

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    I would say you could save many months. PTK is extremely easy to learn. PTK also handles sound and input, too. I'd bet you could be up and running with PTK in less than a week, where doing all that work yourself could take months.
     
  3. Mike Boeh

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    Doing it yourself in DX is more like doing it yourself in OpenGL...

    If you would rather have DirectX instead of opengl, but want an easy engine, you might want to try HGE: http://hge.relishgames.com/ or Blitz Basic...
     
  4. 20thCenturyBoy

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    HGE does indeed look good. Apart from the obvious difference of using DX instead of OpenGL I wonder how it compares to PTK in terms of stability, support, ongoing development etc?

    These engines certainly do seem to take a lot of the drudgery out of game creation. I think if I took the "learn DX first" track I will never complete a game. Especially as I can only spend a couple of hours a day on this.

    Does using one of these engines cause games to look similar? Or are they low-level enough to allow a certain amount of freedom? Can you tell if a game was made with PTK/HGE just by the game mechanics/effects etc?

    20thCB
     
  5. Mark Fassett

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    No. My game, Derelict, was made using DX, initially, but switched to PTK during development. The only difference in the way they look is that I got to use alpha for the shadows and explosions.
     
  6. patrox

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    You might want to check out helix
    http://www.phelios.com/pc/helix.html

    Was made with PTK, it's not really a platformer but has comparable elements.
    Write to me privately i'll send you a key so you can see all the levels and effects.

    pat.
     
  7. Jack Norton

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    My advice is: get PTK.
    I was using Blitzbasic just 1 year ago and I didn't know ANYTHING of C.
    Then I saw PTK and decided to try. Well I was surprised because the passage from a BASIC language to a C library was so easy!!
    Since you aren't really a C newbie like I was at that time, I'd really suggest at least to try it.
    I've tried other libs like Torque, but wasn't even able to compile the examples... :D
     
  8. Rod Hyde

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    Don't even think about it. Just use PTK. It has a very straightforward API and will easily do what you're asking. Plus the fact that it is free to try. If my own experience is anything to go by then you'll be up and running in a day.

    --- Rod
     
  9. ggambett

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Can someone (Patrice maybe) explain exactly what makes PTK so interesting? In terms of shareware, the PTK page doesn't sell it to me. What are the benefits over SDL? With SDL I get 2D support, OpenGL support, input, sound, networking, TrueType fonts and Linux support (which PTK doesn't have), and it's free; and just looking at the API, it doesn't look like a very high level abstraction either (I'd expect sprites, dirty rect management, texture memory management, a GUI...).

    I'm not trolling and I don't mean to offend Patrice, PTK is obviously doing something right judging by the coments of other developers that use it, I just can't see what is it :confused:
     
  10. patrox

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    It's easy to use and it's not LGPL.

    pat.
     
  11. Jack Norton

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    Well I would compare PTK with blitzbasic and other fast and easy development languages, not with SDL directly.
    I think is made for people who want to get fast into game development: for you using SDL may be very easy but for a lot of people (including me) it isn't :(
    It's only a matter of tastes (and programming skills) I think :)
     
  12. ggambett

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    OK, fair enough.
    In practice, the only condition of the LGPL is that you dinamically link to the library and distribute it as a DLL. That's hardly a problem!
     
  13. EpicBoy

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    Truth. I downloaded PTK and I have my game engine skeleton almost up and running and I've definitely spent less than a man week working on it. Not having to worry about Windows messaging or OpenGL set up really saves a lot of time.

    A library doesn't have to do THAT much to make me happy. Just abstract me away from the hardware/OS/API and let me worry about what I care about - my game. PTK does that.
     
  14. princec

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    .. and LWJGL now :)

    Cas ;)
     
  15. patrox

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    From the SDL license:
    "
    To comply with this license, you must give prominent notice that you use the Simple DirectMedia Layer library, and that it is included under the terms of the LGPL license. You must include a copy of the LGPL license.
    You must also do one of the following:

    Include the source code for the version of SDL that you link with, as well as the full source or object code to your application so that the user can relink your application,
    or
    Include a written offer, valid for at least three years, to provide the materials listed in option 1, charging no more than the cost of providing this distribution,
    or
    Make the materials listed in option 1 available from the same place that your application is available. "

    So basically tomorrow i ask you the recompilable objects of Betty Beer Bar, and I can release Bob Beer bar by just changing the graphics ;)

    pat.
     
  16. Jack Norton

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    THIEF!!! That was the name of my next game!!! :D
     
  17. stanchat

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    SpriteCraft is pretty ggod for platform games

    You may want to try this. It is pretty good for doing 2d games.

    http://www.spritecraft.com/
     
  18. ggambett

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    By dynamically linking to SDL, all the user needs to do to "relink" my application with a modified version of SDL (that's the spirit of the LGPL) is to drop a new DLL on top of the one I distribute.

    From the LGPL itself :
     
    #18 ggambett, Nov 23, 2004
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2004
  19. HairyTroll

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    Does PTK have a C API

    The PTK documentation states that it exports a C++ API. Does anyone know if PTK also exports a C API ?
     
    #19 HairyTroll, Nov 23, 2004
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2004
  20. patrox

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    The SDL licence is a modified LGPL , read carefully ;)

    pat.
     

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