PopCap attacks "copycat" designs

Discussion in 'Feedback Requests' started by Teeth, Jun 26, 2007.

  1. KNau

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    The problem is Popcap's credibility gap. It's not smearing to point out that after the anti-cloning campaign is over Popcap will continue to make their money creating and selling "highly derivative" games. It's like a Klan member speaking out against racism while on his way to a cross burning - the value of the message doesn't change the fact that the person giving it is being an asshole.
     
  2. Allen Varney

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    You have that exactly backward. The person being an asshole doesn't change the value of the message. How on earth could it? Do you say, "This guy is a jerk, so therefore parasitic cloning represents no danger to the industry"? That would be silly.
     
  3. papillon

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    I'm not sure why you have such a big hate on for Popcap... did they run over your cat or something?

    Of course, you may be demonstrating your own point - by being so over the top about it, you're making any other message you might have get lost... :)
     
  4. Spore Man

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    All car companies should get together agree to each produce only one type of vehicle. Ford can get pick up trucks. Honda can get the sedan. Smart will get the sub compact, Mercedes gets the luxury SUV... everyone else should switch to other innovative businesses.
    ;-)
     
  5. Ola

    Ola
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    From an interview (at Gamezebo) with George Donovan of Gogii Games:

    The full interview can be found here: http://www.gamezebo.com/2007/07/interview_with_george_donovan.html
     
  6. soniCron

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    I was going to comment on that interview a few days ago (I took great offense by it), and decided to bite my tongue. Buuut, since you posted it...

    From the very shallow and biased perspective of one little interview, the guy makes me sick.

    He starts out in the industry as an IP agent. Then he does those commodotized 17,000!! game packs. He starts his casual biz borrowing the name from Wii.

    Then he lambastes the hide&seek genre for being flooded, even though he jumped on that very same bandwagon recently. (Not to mention his other titles that are heavily influenced by existing titles. For example, his two Nintendo-inspired titles, Puppy Luv and Brain Academy... What could those be? :rolleyes: ) He prides himself in his studio's game turnover (3 games in 2 months) and their current production (5 casual games, 3 retail, and 3 console) and this year's goal (7-10 titles released to retail). And note that he calls his customers, "consumers." (I prefer "players.") Consumers consume commodities, and that's how he appears to see his players.

    Then he proudly exclaims "I don't let the 'game' get in the way of the business." Not that there's anything wrong with running a business with profit in mind, but his portfolio seems to reflect the opposite: letting the business get in the way of the games.

    Finally, he concludes with, "Also, forget what I said before about hidden object games hurting the business ;)"

    This is a guy I can understand people getting pissy over a hypocritical comment. Buuut...you really can't shoot the messenger for the (initial) message! (Even if he reneges!)
     
  7. Ola

    Ola
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    I don't take his party either, or anyone elses.

    But since he mention it at first (although he later takes it back from his buisness decisions) it means another person with lots of experience, speaks out and say, that to many clones hurt the market.

    It's another person who adress the problem, that's why I throwed it in here.
     
    #247 Ola, Jul 6, 2007
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2007
  8. ChrisP

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  9. Jack Norton

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    Is not relevant to this thread at all because it talks about flash/web games. They're different from the downloadable ones...!
    Indeed, probably pays more to clone a game in flash than in a downloadable form :)
     
  10. Ola

    Ola
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    I think parts of it is very relevant:

    Isn't that much like what's happening to the casual market? Now, when there is money in it, the majority cares about money first of all.

    Isn't that a very similar scenario, and why people worry that innovation will go away?
     
  11. soniCron

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    (I knew someone was going to bring this up eventually! ;)) The video game crash of the 80's was a totally different dynamic.

    I really can't be arsed to get into the specifics of it (there's enough historical material in books and on the web to keep you busy for years), but suffice it to say, the crash was a problem regarding the business relationship between arcade manufacturers and their biggest patrons. (Mostly convenience stores, groceries, etc. in fact.) The lease/buy model and limited physical space in those places eventually capped out, which killed a lot of manufacturers, which in turn rippled to arcades which were left with shrinking stock, which killed interest in them and in turn rippled and killed the (at-the-time-insignificant) console industry (which was very simply feeding from the spillover of the arcades). The massive-quantity, bargain-bin cartridges happend as a result of the industry sidestepping in an effort to right itself, and ultimately just dying in another sector.

    In short, the problem was, in fact, one of actual physical limitation, a very constricted market, and desperate flailing on the part of game makers to keep from a dreadful death. Cloning and copycatting was only the most superficial film on top of the whole thing, and a very easy target for finger-pointing.

    But don't take my word for it! Go read some more about it! (But not from some speculative web-author! :))
     
  12. Ola

    Ola
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    I think companies like Gogii Games shows were the market is heading. They represent business first of all, they make quick cash, they give customers more of what is popular, and they don't spend to much time on innovation. They have all the ingredients of the indie reskinners, but are both quicker and have more resources.

    The reskinners that say that any type of competition is only good, shouldn't worry, they will get lots of competition from companies like Gogii. But what about smaller studios, that became indies to be able to do what they wanted, and because the retail market was to commercialized to allow any small or innovative products. Will they just end up in another commercialized market, were innovation once again is replaced by more cost effective and short sighted business alternatives? is that good for the market?

    Is the casual business already shutting it's doors, without knowing it? Because people (portals as well as reskinners) are so busy in the short sighted race for quick money, and to grab a piece of the money everyone is talking about.

    I can't help to get the impression of... gold rush!
    And how does a gold rush use to end?
     
  13. TJM

    TJM
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    This is just idle curiosity, but is Bejeweled really a clone or is it the original? If it is a clone, which game(s) did it copy?
     
  14. RinkuHero

    RinkuHero New Member

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  15. TJM

    TJM
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  16. Pyabo

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    Are we in the running for Lognest Thread Award yet? :)
     
  17. vjvj

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    Dude that link is awesome. THANK YOU!

    The fact that we don't have long threads is a good thing lol :) One of the other forums I post to is an absolute troll haven, and 30+ page threads are quite common there (and ridiculous).
     
  18. rioka

    rioka New Member

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    Maybe. One of the longer ones, iirc, was when Nintendo announced their new controller for the Revolution. That one was massive... O_O
     
  19. NathanR

    NathanR New Member

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    http://www.arcadeflyers.com/?page=thumbs&db=videodb&id=3821

    They say people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I am obviously guilty of doing clones in Skill City.

    I did just want to chime in on this topic though, because I have been playing a game called PEGGLE since 1992, and it is still one of my favorites on the MAME emulator.

    Not only is the play similar, but even the name is an exact copy. For shame PopCap.
     
  20. StGabriel

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    Late to the party but, first of all, no. If someone is right, they are right, no matter who they are.

    Check it out:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

    Secondly, there is no way that PopCap should get crap for being copycats. Copycatting is about saying: hey, that THING made money in that market, so let's just make another one and cash in. PopCap never did that. Every game they have put out has been a new concept to its market. Where they have borrowed ideas has been from those that were under-used or under-polished and they've made them work as a viable product for their specific market: PC casuals.

    Finally, I'm not sure why anything thinks this is an article about ethics. It's not. You're not a bad person if you make a Bejeweled clone. You're just boring and not moving the industry forward. Which is fine, that's not your job. It's just that those of us who do want the industry to move forward and be interesting don't really care about what you're doing. McDonald's sells a lot of burgers but that doesn't mean that they are interesting to a food connoisseur.

    PopCap did a great service to the industry by pioneering the market. They did a lot of the legwork and got an audience primed and ready. So yes, I'm a big fan even if some of their games are pretty boring (to me). Now there are a lot of companies out there making new, original stuff that move the market forwards and a lot of companies that just push out risk-free clones that try to keep the market where it was. Guess which ones I like to support? That's not an ethical judgement, just a preference.
     

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