Pirate Software

Discussion in 'Game Development (Technical)' started by voodooshaman, Jun 6, 2006.

  1. nikolas

    Original Member

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    Anyaway, 30+ posts in half a day is not a bad record... for a medium size forum (considering CGtalk or Soundclick with 2,000,000 members that is).

    It did bring a discussion and there is one thing for sure:

    Pirated software is not a good idea, and is not valued by anyone, whether pro, indie, sutdent, whetever.

    Piracy is plain wrong, in sofwtare, music, carabian! Simple as that!

    Everyone knows where to get things free. But I would feel really really bad if I found out that somebody was using my trakcs without my permission.

    While growing up (hey I'm a father, I do this all the time), I learned one thing. Don't do things that you wouldn't want people to do to you! Simple! :)

    Hope that voodoosomething will come bac kto read the other 25+ posts...
     
  2. Robert Cummings

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    Why not convert them to the full version for half, hell, even a quarter of the price. A one-off redemption coupon.
     
  3. cliffski

    Moderator Original Member

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    not in a million years. You think they should learn that stealing something gets you a discount?
    these people know its illegal, and wrong. I'm not interested in trying to persuade them to buy my product. If someones is caught shoplifting, do the store security offer them a discount?
    Pirating games isn't *cheeky*. Its totally and utterly unacceptable, and people doing it need to know what the developers think of them.
     
  4. Travis Dorschel

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    Microsoft Empower

    Microsoft Empower: $375 a year for 5 seat licenses for all MS OS's, VS 2005, SDK's, DDK's, plus support. 5 guys on this board could start an indie company "co-op" and each pay only $75 a year for all the newest MS software for two years.

    I am planning to join this program this year - I was waiting for VS 2005 to be released.

    Previously discussed in this thread...
     
  5. Robert Cummings

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    If I had a customer which admitted he stole it, I'd give him the one-off chance to purchase it for sure. I'd give him a compelling argument.

    No-one can redeem themselves without a chance. Perhaps a discounts no good - fair enough. But I'd definately give them the chance to redeem themselves. If they don't, then they are beyond reach. If they do, then you made a sale and maybe did some good.
     
  6. JasonD

    Original Member

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    I want to congratulate the operators of this forum for allowing such freedom of speech. Most would shut this down in a heartbeat. People on aforementioned forums are afraid to speak at times. This is obviously not a problem here.

    Please don't be too hard on the original poster. There's no such thing as a stupid question. Just look at all the information brought about by this post.

    I am amazed that pretty much no one has been discouraged from posting their thoughts. I am impressed. Please, keep this up.
     
  7. Surrealix

    Indie Author

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    Interesting discussion.

    This is what really bugs me. Have you actually taken a few days to try and learn these programs? The thing I see all the time is people who are used to Photoshop/MAX/Maya/etc try the free alternatives, and dismiss them straight away as the interface is different, or the workflow is different, and they can't find the options they want.

    I use the GIMP, and blender (and yes, it took months to become proficient, but was well worth it), and have no problems with either of them. Sure, they're both lacking a number of features compared with the 'big boys', but do you really need the lastest skin shaders, or 3D liquid simulation, etc etc? (EDIT actually looks like blender has these too, but my point still stands).

    The thing I found made the most difference was actually buying a wacom ($75NZ second hand) drawing tablet. It's fully compatible with the GIMP and blender (and a host of other small programs I use).

    And of course if you're in the position of needing the latest and greatest tools, I'm sure you're also likely to be able to afford them.
     
    #47 Surrealix, Jun 7, 2006
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2006
  8. impossible

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    Sure it is. On Gamedev.net the instant lock keyword is "warez", on indiegamer its "clone".
     
  9. svero

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    We don't lock clone discussions. We lock threads that degenreate into flamewars or pointless extensions of the same argument. It just so happens that threads about clones tend to do that.
     
  10. voodooshaman

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    I'd like to thank the moderators for not banning me or closing this thread as it has turned into a fascinating discussion. What are moderators afraid of? It's not as if I asked where to find pirate copies. I was interested in the modus operandi of very low budget developers.

    This is a very good point. I use maybe 10% of the full functionality of Maya. I only ever need polygon modelling, uv texturing, bones, constraints, animation and an interface for exporting the data. BUt I'm just so used to the interface. I tried Blender once and was so frustrated at the differences, it was uninstalled in less than an hour.

    I find this quite a profound statement and agree with it somewhat.

    Yes, this discussion has certainly proven this. I was particularly happy to discover a version of VS2005 is indeed free with optimisation/ide/libraries etc. This was the only bit of software I felt a bit guilty about not paying for, since I use it so much.

    I'm not a student and while I'm not a 'professional indie', I am a professional in the games industry. I work for a large in-house team and the notion that 'professionals know better' is an incredibly sweeping statement in my experience. I know of nobody in the games industry who would happily pay full price for commercial software that they could get for 'free'. Even those on wages 5x mine will still download a copy of Max 7 instead of paying for it. This inevitably extends to movies, music, games etc. 'Professionals' are only human too and everyone has different morals.
     
  11. nikolas

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    Speaking from the 'music' point of view, I wouldn't say so.

    You cannot post your music anywhere (soundclick, or any magazine, or music libraries, or BBC) withough owning the equipment you used (software).

    And of course professionals are alos the people who developed MAYA, no? ;)
     
  12. Rebrehc's Industries

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    I have a legitimate full license of Visual Studio 2005 that I didn't pay a dime for. Why? I was a beta tester for the product. If you watch for opportunities, you might just be able to get the latest and greatest for nothing, although you may have to put up with a few bugs along the way.

    As for piracy of any of the things that have been discussed here, why would you think that you have any right to ask people to pay you money for your development efforts (either at work or selling indie games developed in your spare time), if you aren't willing to pay other developers/artists/musicians or whatever for theirs?
     
  13. Gilzu

    Moderator Original Member

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    Presonally I think it makes the community look like a hypocrite for having both 90 post discussions filled with rants about piracy and threads justifying them for the *exact* same lame excuses.

    I hate double standarts.

    I own a legal copy of VC++ 6.0, although lately i've started to like the opencode projects for having much broad community and support.
     
  14. Anthony Flack

    Indie Author

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    I would hate to see honest discussion like this shut down in a desire to be politically correct. I don't think the poster has a screw loose to say this out loud; it's simple truth coming out into the open.

    Yes, it's a touchy subject, since we all (well, except me) make money by selling our IP on the internet. Piracy is the big taboo for developers. And yet, I bet we've all done it before, even if many have since mended their ways, and, like reformed smokers and born-again Christians, become crusaders. Hell, I learned to use Photoshop on a pirated copy - (although that has long since been replaced by a legit version, so my development tools are all "clean" by the way).

    It's not a topic I can really muster any anger about, you know? I expect people will pirate my work too, and I don't feel too upset about that either. It's the nature of this business - just so long as a decent number of people purchase, I'll be happy enough.

    Then again, I've missed out on the profits from my work more than most around here, so maybe I'm just used to the idea of having other people gain from my efforts while recieving nothing for myself. But that's a part of life.
     
  15. JasonD

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    Exactly. Let the truth be known. Don't be afraid of it.

    I've heard that a surprising number of artists in the industry have done so, also. Adobe doesn't care as much as you may think. If people are going to pirate a graphics program, they want them to pirate their version. It helps it become a standard, and later, when these guys get hired by larger companies (for being so good at using their program, which wouldn't have happened if they didn't have a copy of it), the company buys them legit versions, anyway. The gain far exceeds the loss from the few who will never buy.

    (No, I am not condoning software piracy. I am just choosing to see the truth.)
     
  16. svero

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    And you HAVE been reported.

    Hmm.. a job offer sounds in order here...
     
  17. GBGames

    Indie Author

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    I'd argue that doing so would just reward them for infringing on your copyright, which is not what you want to do. I would offer the person a chance to buy the full version, but there are probably other incentives you could offer that wouldn't cost you anything.

    The following is just theory, mind you, but I think it is much better than simply shutting the person out completely:

    Personally talking with the infringer would probably show that you aren't a faceless corporation out to rip people off. Making a request for the person to go legit might impact them more than you know. If the person won't pay for the full version, explain that you can't be expected to support him/her and that it wouldn't be right or fair to you to continue the discussion. It's honest and isn't confrontational. You don't want your customers to bad mouth you to potential customers, but I wonder how many people upset the non-customers because they think they don't matter. No, you can't control what people do or say, but potential customers still listen to other people. Even if the infringer is in the wrong and has no basis for any accusations against your company, his/her opinion might still matter to someone who might be a customer in the future.

    Perhaps in the future when I've personally had to deal with such an issue I might find that I am completely wrong. Until then, I'd rather be optimistic with regards to my customers. I refuse to assume they are criminals out to rip me off unless I can force them to fork over some cash. That's the way of the RIAA/MPAA/BSA, and I do not want to upset my legitimate customers for the sake of making more money that isn't even guaranteed to happen anyway.

    In this case, we already know someone is infringing. Still, it sounds to me like he isn't gloating about it so much as asking about it. "Is it ok?"

    Saying, "NO, YOU JERK!" isn't going to get the desirable reaction. B-)
     
  18. impossible

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    Same here. I got mine at the Visual Studio 2005 launch events they were having all over the country (world?) All you had to do is sign up and show up. MS has a nice habit of giving out lots of free development software if you're in the right place. I understand that people in many countries can't take advantage of this though.
     
  19. Savant

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    You can download all of the 2005 versions from Microsofts web site.
     
  20. oldschool

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    You don't need expensive programs to make a good game.
    examples :
    solarwolf pygame
    invader gamemaker
    ninja loves pirate gamemaker
    radial gamemaker
    Quido pygame
    Here is a list of software so there is no excuse for not trying. Just fire up firefox and control click all the links.
    edit: forgot to mention they are free unless otherwise noted
    OS windows XP pro $100 at college bookstore

    windows apps
    vector graphics
    inkscape inkscape.org great program (free)
    sodipodi http://www.sodipodi.com/index.php3?section=home/about (free)

    raster graphics
    gimp http://www.gimp.org/ (free)
    gimpshop http://plasticbugs.com/index.php?p=241 (free)

    3d modeling
    art of illusion easy to use http://aoi.sourceforge.net/ (free)
    blender http://www.blender.org/cms/Home.2.0.html (free)
    to see what it can do go here http://www.elephantsdream.org/ (free MOVIE)

    programming
    pygame pygame.org (free)
    java http://java.sun.com/ (free)
    boo http://boo.codehaus.org/ python inspired (free)
    mingw http://www.mingw.org/ (free)

    office
    openoffice openoffice.org (free)

    graphic tablet (not free)
    aiptek.com
    aiptek 8000u $50
    caught mine on clearance works great refurbished $27 with shipping
    wacom is better, but expensive comparatively

    flowcharts
    see inkscape/openoffice
    DIA http://www.gnome.org/projects/dia/ (free)

    audio
    Audacity http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ (free)
    synthfont http://www.synthfont.com/ (free)

    web page
    nvu http://www.nvu.com/ (free)
    Graphics engines
    search devmaster.net (look which are free yourself :) )

    Game engines
    blender same as above (still free)
    crystal blend http://www.crystalspace3d.org/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=CrystalBlend (free)
    worldforge http://worldforge.org/doc/introduction (free)
    gamemaker gamemaker.nl$20usd
    (free-w/o scripting, GM splash screen, no 3d, or particles)
     
    #60 oldschool, Jun 7, 2006
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2006

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