Pirate Software

Discussion in 'Game Development (Technical)' started by voodooshaman, Jun 6, 2006.

  1. voodooshaman

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    How many of you use pirate software for your tools? I've used Visual Studio .NET 2005, Maya 7, Photoshop CS 2, Adobe Premiere and loads of other top notch tools/programs that I've never paid for. Paying for that lot would cost an absolute fortune especially when the prices are aimed at corporations and businesses not a single coder trying to knock something up in his spare time.

    Have you ever used or would consider using pirate software for your products? Would you be worried by the possible legal ramifications? Are you a free software advocate? How do you feel about people who use pirate software?
     
  2. GBGames

    Indie Author

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    I'm sure you'll get a lot of heat from this one.

    As for me, I use completely free-as-in-beer and free-as-in-speech software. gcc/g++, make, subversion, vim, doxygen, the Gimp, Blender, OGG Vorbis, the Kyra Sprite Engine, and libsdl, all running on Gnu/Linux. That way, I avoid the consequences of copyright infringement altogether by NOT INFRINGING ON SOMEONE'S COPYRIGHT.

    Not being able to afford high-end software isn't an excuse to use it anyway.
     
  3. nikolas

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    EDIT: Got beaten by GBGames. True here will be a lot of heat here, alhtough the official answer must probably be the same from everyone. :)

    I really don't think anyone would come here and post about the pirated software they use.

    I can't believe that you did!


    Anyway to your question:

    I'm a composer and everything I use I have bought and paid (a large sum of money).

    One reason for this is that the sounds I use, can be very easily traced (you can very easily distinguish a sound when you hear it, even I can do that with certain sample libraries).

    Another reason is that samples are BIG, enormous. It is not a program of 2-3 GB (even windows are less than that). We're talking about 120 GB of samples. Who would go and download 120 GB????

    A third reason is that I am a pro and want my back clear and clean. Period.

    While a student I used software from my college, but never made any money of it, and actually now at my webstie I don't have any track from my old ones, for that reason, to own everything.


    I don't know how grahpics work, but I guess it is the same as scores for example. Although the 2 major notation programs are Finale and Sibelius, there are plenty of FREE notation programs, and one cannot tell the difference. The same goes for PDF drivers. There is Acrobat pro and then there are other FREE ones...

    The same goes maybe with graphics. There is Maya and there is Blender (although I don't have a clue if they do the same job).

    A simple example: I was playing Gibbage (this game rocks!) and had absolutely no idea what language the programer used. C? C++? Visual whatever? Can anybody tell?

    My point is that if you plan on making any money out of your tools, you're much better of buying them. If you plan on showing your work with those tools you're better of buying them. If you plan to just toy with them and try them out and learn a little from them until you have enough to actually buy them, do as you wish (but this is why demos exist).
     
  4. Emmanuel

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    On Windows, you can use Visual Studio Express for free, or get a legit copy of VC++ 6 at bargain basement prices. Paint Shop pro is extremely cheap especially if all you need is to touch up some art that you didn't produce yourself. Engines are in the $0-$200 range (popcap framework, TGB, PTK). A promotion tool like promosoft is also reasonably priced. For music assets, if you work with third parties like Marino Sound or Melin, they have their own studio gear and software. Essentially you can get a lot of mileage for programming your game legally and for not much money upfront.

    Or there's the linux and java development environments as mentioned above, if that's your thing.

    Best regards,
    Emmanuel
     
  5. ggambett

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    I use Pirate Poppers, which I guess qualifies as Pirate software ;)

    As Emmanuel said, VS2005 is free. There are free 3D modelers (Blender and others), free office software (OpenOffice), and free everything else. That's not even considering extremely cheap programs such as Milkshape ($25) and Paint Shop Pro ($99). And not considering you can buy slightly older versions of expensive packages significantly cheaper from eBay or similar places.
     
  6. delsydsoftware

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    Well, you don't have to use the latest, greatest versions of those apps. I bought Photoshop 6 at a used book store for $75. I use DevC++ for development, but I have seen VS 6 for $150-$250 used. You can probably find an older version of Maya on eBay for pretty cheap. Caligari also sells old versions of Truespace for very cheap. You're still looking at $300-$600 worth of software, but it's an investment. If you puirchased the new versions of the apps you mentioned, that could easily run $3000-$4000. $600 is a bargain by comparision, and you know that you're legally covered.

    If you want to go the free/shareware route, you could go for Blender, Milkshape ($20 for a modeller is dead cheap), the Gimp, etc. But, freeware and shareware do have some limitations, so it really depends on what you're doing. I'm about to drop some cash into Visual Studio simply because DevC++ does have some serious limitations. There is an old adage: You have to spend money to make money. If you don't want to take a risk by spending some cash, you probably want to stick to writing freeware games.
     
  7. voodooshaman

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    I suppose you're right of course. I'm aware of the many freeware/shareware alternatives available and have tried many including Blender/Milkshape/GCC etc but have always found them extremely lacking when compared to the high-end stuff.

    Buying old versions of high-end software is probably the best route if I ever decided to go legit. Up until a few years ago, the company I worked for was rife with pirate software ... copies of Windows, Visual Studio, SoftImage, Photoshop, Office were freely copied and used. If they can get away with it, I'm sure the big corporate legal boys wouldn't be interested in a small-time fish. Unless, of course, I downloaded an mp3 then God help me :p

    Of course, I know there's a 'right thing to do' and a 'wrong thing to do' and currently I'm in 'wrong' territory. If I ever made a lot of money from selling titles then I'd consider purchasing the software I use. Until then, it could well be a waste of money.

    The 'free' VS2005 is not entirely 'free' though is it? It's just the compiler, not the IDE or the libraries and probably has optimisation turned off.
     
  8. Savant

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    This is an excellent point. I bought Photoshop 7 for my Mac on eBay for a song.
     
  9. Savant

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    No, it's complete and it's free. IDE, documentation, optimizations - it's all there.

    I imagine the "Super mega enterprise universal" edition will be better in many ways but for indies, the free one is more than enough.
     
  10. yanuart

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    hot damn, milkshape is now 25$ !!! Why the hell did I bought it for 100$ a couple years ago just to have fun with md5 :(
     
  11. Emmanuel

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    The only features missing from the (totally free) VS Express for making games are the resource editor (no big deal, just reference your .ico or whatever by hand) and the profiler (more annoying, but you can use the free Intel or AMD tools like CodeAnalyzer).

    Best regards,
    Emmanuel
     
  12. yanuart

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    with no MFC and all that shit they usually ship with VS, so unless you're planning to make an SQL Server .Net games you can have it for free! Guess what? most games are just win32 application!
     
    #12 yanuart, Jun 6, 2006
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2006
  13. nikolas

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    Just noticed this on CGempire. It does list a lot of FREE tools so it's worth a mentioning I guess...
     
  14. cliffski

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    I can't believe someone is coming here admitting to making games using pirate software. If I was a mod I'd ban your username and IP permenantly.
    Maybe you havent worked for years on something then seen lame kiddies just steal it without paying, but I can assure you its not a nice feeling.
    Needless to say you wont get any advice, feedback or help from me, or the other posters that feel the same way as long as you have such an attitude.

    I use older software, or free programs like audacity, and even then I donated to the project because I aprpeciated the software.
    Poser 6 cost me £160. No doubt I could get it from bit-torrent, but then I'm not a cheapskate pirate and dont believe that taking software for free is a victimless crime. Dont kid yourself you can't afford it. Use freeware if that's the case.
     
  15. Savant

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    So make a win32 application. Seriously, maybe you need to actually try using it before condemning it.
     
  16. Robert Cummings

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    What are you after - justification that its "ok" to use pirated tools? It isn't ok.

    Frankly I've no idea what planet you come from.

    But to be constructive:
    Visual studio net: get the free version, or get mingw - there's loads of choice here
    Photoshop: buy a wacom graphire or similar and get ps elements for free (its virtually identical)
    Maya 7: buy xsi, you can get the academic version sub £200, and many will tell you it is better than maya. ILM use it in every single film. Good enough?

    You have a screw lose coming in here with that attitude...

    It would cost you less than £300 the lot (in my list) and you would get a wacom graphics tablet in the bargain! ANYONE - even someone on the dole - can afford this with a tiny loan. Get real dude, there's no excuses...
     
    #16 Robert Cummings, Jun 6, 2006
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2006
  17. Savant

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    This is a pet peeve of mine but it's really not usable for game development - there's no alpha channel support. It's great for editing photographs but almost useless for game artwork.
     
  18. svero

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    A lot of the high end 3d apps aren't very affordable. I use softimage xsi 5.0 - at 500$ it was reasonably priced and has more power than I need. (with one exception! I really want the hair in that 7k version... hair would be nice sometimes)
     
  19. Christian

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    Well, if i can, i use free software, like blender or The gimp, but if i dont have other choise then i use comercial tools, but have in mind that people from other countries find it imposible to buy such expensive tools, in some countries the price of software is multiplied by 3 (my example), if some software costs 500USD, then the equivalent here is 1500pesos, thats totally crazy. I just hope one day to save enough money to have legal software. But if you have the money, then there is no excuse i think.
     
  20. impossible

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    I'm surprised this thread has stuck around so long. On Gamedev.net they are hyper sensitive about this sort of thing and any thread mentioned "warez" or "piracy" will be instantly locked (usually with a very nasty comment from the moderator that locked it.)

    Free software is hit or miss, but free content creation tools are getting better and better now. For example, I recently played with Gimpshop and found it to be pretty good. There are also other free paint apps like Microsoft Expression, Paint.NET and Inkscape.

    I'll be trying out the newest version of blender soon. I played around with it years ago and found it unusable, but I've heard its better now. I really want some decent 3D animation software with good export support that costs less than $1000. There are also some free 3D level editors. Like Deled LITE and GTK Radiant. Z-Modeler is a free 3D modeler designed for cars that is ok. Audacity is great for sound editing.

    It should be possible to make a Windows game with some combination of Visual Studio Express and your choice of free content creation tools without paying or piracy.
     

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