Photoshit Question

Discussion in 'Game Development (Technical)' started by Applewood, Jan 2, 2009.

  1. Reactor

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    1,637
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'd be using VirtuaWin, so.... umm, yeah.

    :)

    Ask for Gimp- for those who don't want to spend anything at all (or are under Linux, of course), it's great at what it does. For me, I'd rather spend a small amount under Windows and have... well, windows that know how to stay on top of another.
     
  2. Bad Sector

    Original Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,742
    Likes Received:
    5
    I believe this isn't a problem with GIMP but a problem with Windows' window manager. In X most window managers provide much better "window management" functionality than what Windows' window manager provides, so X programs are written in a way that they depend more on the window manager than Windows programs. It is as much a design flaw as the "one holy menu bar" is in Mac OS X: some prefer it the one way, some the other. But in X GIMP behaves much like every other X program and X programs are designed mostly like X. The idea is that there is one or more "controller" windows and "document" windows. I think the paradigm is more similar to Mac than Windows though, although in Mac the "controller" is the menu bar, not some window.

    Although lately there is a shift towards single window programs (especially in GNOME/KDE applications). But personally i can't say i like this paradigm for applications like image editors.
     
  3. Reactor

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    1,637
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's a lot of Xs.

    Are you talking about a shift in Linux circles? There's no shift happening under Windows, aside from people shifting away from the annoying Gimp/Inkscape window setup.

    Why?
     
  4. Nutter2000

    Original Member Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    993
    Likes Received:
    3
    Yes it does. I didn't say speed of downloading, I said speed of loading i.e. at run time.
    I just forgot to put that it's not so much of an issue on pc any more :p

    Iain
     
  5. vjvj

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,732
    Likes Received:
    0
  6. Nutter2000

    Original Member Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    993
    Likes Received:
    3
    Hmm... nice, I might have a look at that, when people usually look at my desktop and the amount of open windows men are outraged and women faint :D

    and it was worse before tabbed browsers :rolleyes:
     
  7. Bad Sector

    Original Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,742
    Likes Received:
    5
    Thats X as in the X Window System :).

    I'm talking about a shift in the X application design (X is used in other systems beyond Linux, including Mac OS X), not Windows. Although one could say that this is somehow true in Windows too since it was more common in the W95/98 era to see MDI apps than today.

    See my screenshot how many open images i have at once (and two of the windows are different views of the same image - in fact i now use about 3-4 different view windows when i'm making some pixel art, one for editing and the other in original, zoomed in and alternate background versions - i would love it when at some point i could tile the image in a window too :) ... hmm thats a nice idea for a plugin probably).

    With a single window this isn't possible.
     
  8. Reactor

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    1,637
    Likes Received:
    0
    Or anyone else's, I bet ;)

    You can do that in any standard image application.

    EDIT: Sorry, I missed where you said, "With a single window this isn't possible." But, it is.
     
  9. Nutter2000

    Original Member Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    993
    Likes Received:
    3
    That would be PC as in the Mass noun not the Possessive. ;)

    I'd still contend that all things being equal size of asset vs speed of asset loading at runtime is still an issue on low powered devices such as handhelds or mobiles.
     
  10. Reactor

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    1,637
    Likes Received:
    0
    I stand corrected, and raise you a comma for your extra long sentence. Congratulations, we're both bad grammar nazi's. (I threw that last one in for you) ;)

    Sure, but in many ways those platforms are a special case. Typically png is a perfectly acceptable format for images you need to keep uncompressed (visually). TGA is old, and often hard to fit into modern graphical pipelines.
     
  11. Nutter2000

    Original Member Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    993
    Likes Received:
    3
    Touché! Grammar Wars for the win! :D

    Yes but then you could say that every platform is a special case because they all have their little quirks :p

    I do agree with you that PNG is now the fairly widely accepted format on desktops, I was just being the devils advocate* and pointing out that there are times when the size and complexity of the format can be a disadvantage on other platforms.
    I know that Paul does develop for mobile and handhelds, or at least has in the past, so it was a valid point. :p

    Iain

    *i.e. fussy
     
  12. Bad Sector

    Original Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,742
    Likes Received:
    5
    First reaction: how

    Second reaction: ok, waitaminute. Possible misundestanding detected :p. I'm not talking about MDI, but about SDI and -to less extent- TDI (Wikipedia article for the confused). MDI is basically a desktop inside a window, therefore some sort of virtual desktop.

    So if you actually mean SDI or TDI, my first reaction still counts: how? :)

    EDIT: sidenote: Photoshop -at least until version CS2, not sure about later versions- is not actually a strictly MDI application. Windows are floating around much like as in GIMP, but there is a "central Window" that contains the menu bar that acts as a background. Unlike GIMP though, in Photoshop the windows arent in the task bar and once you minimize the main window, the others are minimized too. I'm not sure if this something hard to implement in GIMP, but it was the same case in Lazarus: multiple auxiliary windows, main "controller" window. Until a couple versions ago, they were totally independent, but in the last two versions the aux windows do not show in task bar and they get minimized with the controller window. There is no background window there though (and a big huge thanks for that, i just can't imagine working with Lazarus in a SDI/TDI interface without getting mad - ok i can, i've actually worked with Delphi Explorer...).
     
    #92 Bad Sector, Jan 9, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2009

Share This Page

  • About Indie Gamer

    When the original Dexterity Forums closed in 2004, Indie Gamer was born and a diverse community has grown out of a passion for creating great games. Here you will find over 10 years of in-depth discussion on game design, the business of game development, and marketing/sales. Indie Gamer also provides a friendly place to meet up with other Developers, Artists, Composers and Writers.
  • Buy us a beer!

    Indie Gamer is delicately held together by a single poor bastard who thankfully gets help from various community volunteers. If you frequent this site or have found value in something you've learned here, help keep the site running by donating a few dollars (for beer of course)!

    Sure, I'll Buy You a Beer