Paypal are bastards?

Discussion in 'Indie Business' started by Chris England, Sep 10, 2010.

  1. zoombapup

    Moderator Original Member

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    I dont have a problem with them locking an account if thats what the law says to do, the problem with paypal (and lots of the bigger web companies), is that there is no real person at the other end you can communicate with to fix it.

    Its the same with google, or amazon or facebook. No real PERSON who you can go to for help. Just a system, a cold hard system.

    I'd rather deal with a real human being who lives within the system and can help me navigate it more easily. One who can form a relationship and provide advice etc.

    Sadly, thats not really how things work anymore is it.
     
  2. Bad Sector

    Original Member

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    @zoombapup:
    I agree with you but i think that in practice it is impossible to deal with so many people :).
     
  3. Nexic

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    I had a similar problem with PayPal. They locked my account with $20,000 in there. After a couple of weeks and about 100 phone calls they eventually let me get at the money. Suffice to say after that I moved to BMT Micro and never looked back.

    Oh btw, the always withdraw thing doesn't work when the account is already locked but lots of new money is still coming in. I believe Notch only had about 50k in there when first locked, but in the days since it's built up to 600k.
     
  4. Artinum

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    Hmm, it seems the overall opinion here is summed up thus:
    1. Paypal are probably acting on legal grounds, though the strength of these is uncertain.
    2. They are the major payment provider, so you have to use them (or another service that accepts payments through them).
    3. Some people keep insane amounts in these accounts. Fellas, they don't accrue interest in there. If you've got a few thousand mounting, put it into a savings account!
    4. Paypal themselves are bastards - not for their actions regarding money, but for their customer service.

    I'd comment on 4 that I had a problem a while back and they were very helpful about sorting it out - though the problem was bizarre and the solution was a rather complicated workaround. They currently think my linked bank account is held by Indieproofing (it isn't - it's my personal account, as when I set it up originally, and why they've since mangled things so badly is beyond me - but fortunately my bank doesn't seem to care about the name on the payments).

    Basically, they aren't bastards - they're just a shade incompetent.
     
  5. zoombapup

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    When it comes to banking, I'd probably label those things the same. Incompetency when it comes to TAKING your money away at least.
     
  6. sake-bento

    sake-bento New Member

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    I've always been a little weirded out by PayPal because I'm basically handing over loads of personal information to some company that's largely unregulated. In the end, I'd rather it just be one instead of many, which is why I still use it. Plus, pretty much everyone in the world uses it, and it's awfully hard to hire an artist without being able to pay via PayPal.

    From the horror stories I've heard and read, it seems the big issue is that they let computers with trigger-happy instructions run the whole thing, and the only living human beings you come in contact with are hired grunts who haven't the foggiest when it comes to how the machine runs.
     
  7. cliffski

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    For that amount of money, you should expect platinum customer service.
    I don't have $600,000 in my company bank account, but even so, the customer service I get is awesome.
    If I call them, they answer the phone on the first ring, in person, and deal with any issue I have immediately and politely. If I feel lazy for hitting buttons on my phone, I can click a button on their website and they then call me, in person, instantly.
    I don't accept any suggestion that there is an excuse for paypal to take any time over this. They should have triggered an alert that a wealthy customer is inconvenienced and phoned him within an hour to apologise and explain the situation.
    As it stands, they are just nudging notch into settting up payments with their rivals. What dorks.
     
  8. princec

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    Won't be long before this particular bit of publicity costs them millions.

    Cas :)
     
  9. zoombapup

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    Its how all the big "web 2.0" companies work though. Not with people, but with systems and procedures.

    Not exactly great customer service, but they dont give a crap. You arent a customer, you're a consumer.
     
  10. Bad Sector

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    Millions? I doubt it but even then, so what? They handle billions and more. A million for you and me might be a great deal but for Paypal nothing. Keep in mind that you hear such stories only now and then but Paypal has a huge number of users with thousands of transactions per second.

    Paypal aren't "bastards", they're slow. They probably can become faster but probably then you won't get the low rates they keep. And since they're the most known and used service, increasing their rates will affect everyone, not only those who use them directly.
     
  11. Vino

    Vino New Member

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    Odd that this topic has a question mark on it when I think there's really no question about it.
     
  12. cliffski

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    slow customer service is way way way way way more expensive to provide than fast customer service.
    If I have a problem with company A, they detect it and immediately contact me to update me and apologise, thats the matter under control.
    If company A ignores me, and I phone them 10 times, email them, speak to a lawyer, send them letters.... this costs them a fortune to deal with, and vastly magnifies the time span over which I bitch about them, oonline through twitter, facebook and blogging, to other potential customers of A.

    Only idiots think that they can cut corners by slowing down the speed at which they respond to big customers.

    If BMTMicro did this to me, I'd never ever work with them again, I'd blog it, facebook it, press release it, and probably set up a dedicated web page explaining my position, advising other people to avoid them forever.
    They probably know this :D.
     
  13. zoombapup

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    Well to be fair, I dont think any of us are missing the fact that he got stiffed by them, so he has done most of the "blogging about it" part. Although other people kind of did it for him too.

    But paypal really probably couldnt give a monkeys. Which is the real issue.

    I'd never trust them myself because they arent human. They are a machine. Its like expecting customer service off an automated till in tesco. Hardly something I would trust with 600k :)
     
  14. ChrisP

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    At least automated checkout kiosks tend to have real people standing by to help out if (when!) they screw up. No such luck here!

    I should make it clear that I don't think Paypal is deliberately setting out to screw people. They just don't give a sh** when it happens. It isn't helped by the fact that they benefit from closing people's accounts and pocketing the money, at least in the short term. So there's no short-term incentive for them to improve. And given their market dominance, they don't seem overly concerned about the long term.

    Does it make pure, rational, capitalist sense to behave this way? Possibly. Are they still bastards, regardless? Absolutely yes. :)
     
  15. Jack Norton

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    Cliff just invented a new thing called "revengeware" :D
     
  16. Backov

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    How many businesses have you run through Paypal again?
     
  17. Artinum

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    Not to be confused with revengewear, such as the yellow jumpsuit sported by Uma Thurman in "Kill Bill"...
     
  18. cliffski

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    I'm sugegsting that no, it does not.
    Take ebay, and google, and amazon. They are so massively established it will take a gargantuan effort for any company, ever, to possibly unseat them.
    Take paypal. They have a terrible reputation. They are established too, but whereas people are not in a hurry to abandon google for an alternative, people *do* feel that way with paypal.
    Thats a massive, huge, insane problem to have, if it doesn't cost much to fix it. The bad reputation of paypal probably reduces the 'barrier to entry' for a competitor by at least a billion dollars.
    That's not a decision I'd make, if I was them. but hey, they are billionaires and I'm not, so i'm wrong :D
     
  19. Bad Sector

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    None, but i have the rare skill of critical thinking :)
     
  20. princec

    Indie Author

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    Billionaires they may be, but just imagine, if they weren't so fecking cretinously shady, they'd be trillionaires. Instead someone else is going to come along, copy everything except the shit customer service, and stomp all over them. Probably google or amazon.

    Cas :)
     

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