OpenGL Or DirectX

Discussion in 'Game Development (Technical)' started by ProgrammingFreak, Feb 23, 2006.

  1. ProgrammingFreak

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    So OpenGL will work under any OS, I know it works under Linux and Windows, but I wasn't sure if it works under Mac
     
  2. Fabio

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    Yes, Apple ~recently has pushed a lot towards hw accelerated high quality OpenGL support on the Mac. For example, you get Halo with pixel shaders and a lot of other modern games (including Doom3 IIRC).

    Development tools on the Mac are very good, and you get a very good compiler bundled, for free, even with a Mac mini.

    Simplifying everything: Mac OS X = Unix + Apple GUI.

    PS: just paid a visit at the Apple site and saw that the Mac mini with x86 dual core is available.. for those interested. Nice++ little machine.
     
  3. Sharpfish

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    I heard the new mac-minis were bottle-necked with shared memory video solutions that rendered them obsolete before they arrive? (especially with no upgrade ability?). Which is a shame because I was looking into picking one up sometime in the future.
     
  4. Ish

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    Thats why I switched from PCs to Macs as my main machines a year or so ago. A sweet GUI on top of Unix. Yes please.
     
  5. Fabio

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    Yes, you are right. However (please do not take my word for that since it's nothing I have verifyed by myself):

    1) in real world tests (e.g. most 3D games) it still performs on average a bit (10%-40%) better than the old Mac mini based on non-shared-memory Radeon 9200.

    2) while I'm really negative about this, the truth is that Mac mini is not meant as a gaming platform. At best, a video playback or video editing platform. And the Intel G950 supports Core Image unlike the Radeon 9200 found in the previous Mac mini model, another sign that Apple is committed to other gfx uses than gaming.

    Which is a pity IMHO.

    If the new Mac mini had a semi-decent (they're cheap, dammit!) gfx subsystem, then I would probably buy one, because gaming for me is important (if anything, one these low-end machines, as a developer).

    As is, this new machine is a pity IMHO. With very little effort it could have been much more interesting.

    However, if you don't care about gaming (besides simple games), then I think it's still a very nice little machine. I'm not happy about the switch to x86 by the way, I'd have preferred it to stay PowerPC, but one can't have everything from life. ;)

     
  6. Sharpfish

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    Thanks Fabio for the additional info. I was purely looking at one as a "low end development system" for mac games. "How low is *too* low in the mac world" is open to question I guess. :)
     
  7. princec

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    IMHO the Mac Mini, in all incarnations, is a totally awesome bit of gaming kit, provided you don't want to do all that ultrafancy stuff and almost none of us in here do! It's more powerful than the last generation of consoles in various ways, and unlike a PC, it makes software installation a total doddle. I just wish they were £100 cheaper.

    Cas :)
     
  8. Bachus

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    The new Mac Mini's video card is roughly equivalent to a Radeon 9600. It has full support for all OGL features (fragment programs, GLSL, VBO, etc), and is a noticeable upgrade to the 9200 the Mini used to have. The only major downsides to it is the shared video memory (nobody complains about the Xbox and Xbox 360 having shared memory) and the lack of hardware T&L. Vertex processing (including vertex programs) are done in software (fragment programs *are* done on the card).

    Is your game CPU or fillrate limited? Then your game should be faster on the new Mini. If you're geometry/transform limited then it may be slower, but most indie games are fillrate limited. You wouldn't want to run Doom 3 on it, but then you *couldn't* even run Doom 3 on the previous Mini. It's more than good enough for the vast majority of indie games out there.
     
  9. vjvj

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    The new Mac Mini sounds cool!

    I HAVE to correct you on the shared memory thing though. You can't compare the shared memory on the X360 to an integrated GPU. The X360's local memory is on chip and blazingly fast. Intel9xxx has little/no local memory and must perform all memory transactions over the slow-ass bus to system memory. HUGE performance difference.

    Not to mention it's probably a lot slower than a RADEON 9600 as well.

    Hopefully the feature/driver support will be better than the 8xxs. This GPU will be a key testing platform for me, once we get to that stage.

    Thanks for the info on the new Mini!
     
  10. Fabio

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    Agreed, and there's enough CPU power (expecially on the dual core) to do vertex processing IMHO. We're talking about the lowest-end Mac after all.
     
  11. princec

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    Are you serious that the Mini has no hardware transform??? It's such a trivial bit of hardware to put in and it's been standard in every graphics card worth its salt since the Geforce 1 and makes a massive difference to performance. Say it ain't so!

    Cas :)
     
  12. Bachus

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    Yup. See this post by Arekkusu (who works in the OGL group at Apple).

    http://www.idevgames.com/forum/showpost.php?p=111456&postcount=9
     
  13. ProgrammingFreak

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    So OpenGL is supported on Mac
     
  14. Fabio

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    I thought we already answered that. :)
     
  15. ProgrammingFreak

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    Oh wait maybe we did, ok sorry
     
  16. Fabio

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    Keine problem*. :)



    *as in "Wolfenstein, Enemy Territory". I played too much lately. :D


     
  17. ProgrammingFreak

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    Haven't played that wolf yet
     
  18. Fabio

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    Very cool multiplayer (and free) game: but keep on not playing it if you want to learn asm.. because that game is very addictive and time-consuming. ;)

    Anyway, for the masochists:
    http://www.3dgamers.com/games/wolfensteinet/

     
  19. ProgrammingFreak

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    Sounds like a fun game and ASM is really hard, so I don't think I'll learn it right away
     
  20. Fabio

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    LOL =)


    I first suggest a board to learn ASM and then I also suggest a game that kills the previous suggestion.

    I'm doomed to hell. ;)

    In any case, have fun! That's what really counts!

     

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