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Discussion in 'Indie Related Chat' started by Hiro_Antagonist, Sep 16, 2005.
How long did it take you to switch from DOS to Windows?
Never used a machine that only had DOS. First PC I used had windows 95 on it - it was when I took a job working at a game developer almost 10 years ago.
Up until then I had consoles, Amiga, Atart ST, an Archimedes and a BBC.
And this has something to do with the thread how?
Just exploring your willingness to accept new technologies.
You see, assuming the controller functions as per the specifications we have, there's not much left to fate. The assumption that the controller works is certainly not unreasonable - not much different than assuming both analog sticks on your PS2 controller will work. We can all agree that if it kicks out every 12 seconds, registers completely incorrect angles, and the like, it's bound to fail. Since Nintendo's relying on this to be their primary input, we can assume it actually functions correctly.
Now, what's left? Developers. How many do you think are going to be left behind after gripping two controllers in their fists and experience a boxing match with real punches? How many do you think are going to dismiss the system after swinging the controller for a beautiful home run, beating the world record? How many developers are going to decide the next Nintendo console is a waste of time after performing a 23-point fighting combo with beautifully scripted gestures? Or blocking their opponent's blows then thrusting their broadsword into their enemy's flesh? Or sharpshooting an enemy target from a kilometer away? Commanding an army to ravage a city with two swift gestures? Building an empire from their armchair? Extinguishing that empire with the power of a god?
How many, do you think, would rather pass this on for their pixel shaders?
How many gamers?
I accept the best tool for the job. If I'm playing a driving game I use a steering wheel. If I'm playing a flying game I use a joystick.
Your suggestions of uses is exactly what's wrong with the hype. Instead of waiting to see what games come out you've made them all up in your head. Surely we should be looking at new game types rather than turning the remote into nothing more than a novelty controller.
As cool as you might think it is to wave two around for a boxing game you've got to ask "will the players want to?" You see, and this is back to one of my points about who it's aimed at, who's going to want to do that? I'm not seven years old - and the generation who do have a problem with a controller aren't likely to want to stand up waving them around. This is what is meant by "will it work". Imagine controlling every game with the eye toy? Unless the consoles will come with 2 or you get one with the game how many games do you think will utilise 2 controllers? Bit of a risk for the developer wouldn't you say?
You see, I can shake Maracas, I can play Bongos, I can shoot guns, I can use chainsaws, I can fish, I can swing a golf club, I can punch the air, I can dance, I can do all that and more without a Nintendo Revolution. None of those games revolutionised gaming. I'm hoping the game developers who use it will use their imagination a little more than "it's like a sword...no wait.. a light sabre!".
As I keep saying, wait for the games. Sure, in your own little imagination I bet it's going to be great but until we've seen more judging something a success or a failure is a crazy man's business.
And now, because you seem intent on stripping apartmy posts to make some kind of point which you don't appear to be making. I shall put you on block. It's getting tiresome and I'm getting bored (as I'm sure everyone else is).
By your own admission you'd rather use the input device best suited for the job. Unless I'm completely missing the purpose of the Revolution's controller, it takes place as the most suitable input device for a vast array of gameplay mechanics, far more so than a wheel, joystick, or gamepad ever could. And it's the primary input device being shipped with the Revolution, which means it's going to be widespread on that console, unlike the add-on controllers you mentioned.
Players seem more than satisfied to go jumping around on a dance mat.
How many folks in these forums have more than one controller for your console? How about people you know? Sure, it's a bit of a risk, but really, how much?
But at what cost? Monetary? How many external peripherals do you have to buy? Control? How is a gamepad better suited for almost all genres of gaming? And for those not yet created?
No. You're right. None of those games revolutionize gaming. However, the way in which we control those games with the controller has the potential to revolutionize gaming. It's not just about throwing away everything we know. It's about building from that to create something truly amazing.
Suit yourself. Looks like I'm left with a lot of unanswered questions.
I really don't want to be near either of you when the bloody console actually comes out and you actually have something to get worked up over...
But don't underestimate the 6 axes of analogue control you get before even pushing any buttons. And underneath all that, it's still a NES-ish controller as well.
I think it's safe to assume that this thing works as well as advertised (it would be total suicide for Nintendo to go with it if it didn't), and of course there will be plenty of games to go with it (Nintendo have been known to make some quite good games). Imagining new games in your head is inevitable (strangely, I'd often thought of that particular boxing game in the past - I really want to play a genuinely adaptive fighting game that doesn't reduce you to memorising button combinations) - I think it's safe to say that a lot of these game ideas, and more, will be realised.
And hey, now that I think of it, of course EA and the rest would want to support this system. Here is a chance to make a new Madden game that actually is different from the last one.
What has really impressed me here is that Nintendo has shown, again, that it doesn't just make great games - it's a proper hardware manufacturer. Proper, as in it actually comes up with new hardware devices. Sony and Microsoft are both pitching identical machines with no new features - their idea of being a hardware manufacturer is simply being the company that owns the box and gets the license fee. Nintendo are making new things.
It remains to be seen whether this is a gimmick, but really, I don't think so. It feels a little gimmicky because it's new, but in the end I think people will find it really useful and versatile, not just a novelty item. No need to buy maraccas or lightguns or anything like that any more. Never mind all the new uses it could be put to.
Time will tell, but if I was a gambling man, I'd be buying Nintendo stock.
In addition, the comes-with-the-box analog thumbpad "addon" has 2 triggers, and I'd be surprised if they didn't add a couple more buttons around the big "A" button. (Like the Gamecube's X and Y buttons.)
Yes, but in the past you didn't have to move anything but your fingers, now your have to move your entire wrist/arm.
A certain amount of physical motion doesn't seem to have prevented people from enjoying just about any other activity you can think of.
Hm, it seems to me that gripping the revolution controller on both ends, as if you were holding the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock positions on a steering wheel, could be pretty good for MarioKart.
I'm personally excited about this sucker. I've been predicting the crash of the games industry for about a year, based on stagnation. Now I make an additional prediction: If the Nintendo Revolution is NOT a total flop, the crash will not happen in the next 10 years.
The big thing here is that innovation is going to go through the roof. XBox and PS3 are going to have "Doom 4, now with *more* pipes on the walls!" whereas Revolution is finally going to be a console that could handle an RTS like Starcraft (lasso your units with a swing of the controller, anyone?), could handle a realistic fishing game, could make a realistic driving game without add-on steering wheels, could (as mentioned above) make an absolutely AMAZING boxing game...
Well, I'm excited. Change is nigh, and it's about damn time.
I spend umpteen hours a day moving my wrist, using my mouse at work and the touchpad on the laptop. The action required isn't going to cause me to enter a spasm and result in amputation or anything. It's entirely comfortable.
Do you really think Nintendo would make the main input device for their next generation controller completely unusable for more than 15 minutes? Remember, this is the company that has pioneered almost every console interface since the D-Pad.
As I've already explained, a mouse only uses one rotational axis of your wrist, this will use 2-3. Plus your hand is constantly supported by the mouse. With this your hand will need to be lifted from the surface, so there will be less support. Plus you will find most of the mouse movement is done with your thumb and little finger, not your wrist.
Now try this. Lift your mouse off of your mouse pad and wave it in the air (you can still rest the pivot of your wrist, just not your hand) for 15 minutes straight, then tell me that didn't hurt.
And yet, painters can paint for hours without moaning. I guess they are just a tougher breed, eh?
They actually earn money. Ask a painter if they'd do it for 'fun' and see what they say.
Besides, if the reward is money or entertainment, it's still a reward.
If you think waving your arm around in the air won't cause it to ache then do as Nexic suggested and try it. Or go and buy an EyeToy and play their fighting game - you're get knackered quite quickly.
Just because it's a Nintendo controller doesn't mean you can't ask questions.
Desk/arm support does not = good. When you're holding a standard mouse your arm is twisted in an unnatural manner, which can result in arm and shoulder discomfort. The Rev controller will be held in a more natural manner, with your hand on its side. Also, since the human body was designed to move (and assuming the Rev games have people moving themselves around) this can only be a good thing... or at very least, a better thing than sitting down all the time you're playing.
Seriously though, it all comes down to the games. I'm sure there will be games that will cater for both types of people- those who want to wave something around, and those who don't.
Amen to that!
Two things - first, I don't move my mouse with my thumb and little finger, I move my wrist. And with my touchpad, I have to do the same.
Secondly, it didn't hurt. I guess I'm just used to such movements. Or perhaps my results are normal and you're the minority. We'll find out when the Rev is released, at any rate. But I find it quite comfortable resting my arms on my lap, with the analogue stick (or for this test, mobile phone) in my left hand, and the remote (or mouse, here) in my right, with both arms positioned so that my wrist lies on my thighs. Plenty of scope for 3D movement of the right hand, and no discomfort. Remember to go from one extreme to the other requires a turn of the mouse of only an inch or so at most - assuming of course that the device is as accurate as accounts would have it believe, which is all we really have to go on, so that's what ought to be discussed. And if it wasn't as accurate at that, it'd be a failure as an input device before it leaves R&D.
As ever, it'll be the final release and proper experience that will tell the full story, but you can see why I'm optimistic. Dare I say it, I find it quite natural.