Nintendo Revolution controller revealed. You have to see it to believe it.

Discussion in 'Indie Related Chat' started by Hiro_Antagonist, Sep 16, 2005.

  1. Ricardo C

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    Just wait until a Star Wars game comes out that lets gamers use the Revolution controller to control a lightsaber, and watch the controller sell itself.
     
  2. Nexic

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    Yeh its just like a mouse... Aside from the fact a mouse only uses one rotational axis on your wrist, this will use 3. Let's also not forget that your mouse hand is always supported, with this it controlleryou will have to use the muscles in your wrist to hold your hand up constantly as otherwise your hand will rub with whatever surface you choose to rest it on.

    I could see it as working well with very particular games (like Starwars light saber duels) but for most games it will be completely unplayable for more than 15 minutes in a row.
     
    #22 Nexic, Sep 16, 2005
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2005
  3. ERoberts

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    Worst idea ever!
     
  4. Vectrex

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    I think it's brilliant, but then I hate console controllers with a passion and haven't bought one since playstation 1 (and the only game I had was wipeout). FPS, RTS and platform games with a dinky little analog joystick? Now THAT'S a bad idea.
    I'm so glad they did this, xbox360 and ps3 make me melt with boredom and cringe when they lie for the millionth time.
     
  5. soniCron

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    I don't see what everyone's problem is, and I'm quite surprised so many of you are less than impressed. Perhaps you're not understanding it fully?
    • Do you get tired walking around with a flashlight in real life? I'm not at all concerned that the typical sports-frenzied fan wouldn't think twice about "having to actually swing." I'm thinking the Lazy Bug has bitten a few of you. ;)
    • Still features regular buttons, regular D-pad, and regular analog stick, so gaming ports from other systems won't be impossible. (And just as familiar to you less enthusiastic group.)
    • While the people were so animated in the video, I highly doubt you'd have to move so wildly. It very well may allow sensetivity adjustment so you can just set your arm in your lap and flick your wrist, not unlike a mouse.
    • It is not "just" a TV remote! If that's what you think, watch the video again!
    I don't know about you, but any hint of an idea that I was going to buy an Xbox 360 has flown out the window, and I'll honestly be surprised if this doesn't penetrate a much wider audience than the typically hardcore console gamer. I'm a Nintendo man, once again! :)

    I can't wait for the next-NEXT Zelda... :D
     
  6. Martoon

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    I'm a little confused about how the technology works. They refer to "internal sensors that detect your hand motion", which suggests accelerometers (MEMS accelerometers are quite accurate and dirt cheap now), but trying to track absolute position and orientation via polling accelerometers gives you big problems with drift. It may be that drift wouldn't matter for the way they're used for games, but then they say you can just point at things on the screen and shoot. How would they accomplish this? I'm sure it isn't raster focusing (like a lightgun), since that doesn't work with LCD screens, and LCDs are way to common now to ignore.
     
  7. soniCron

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    IGN has a little hands-on article about it, and they discuss what capablities it has.
     
  8. Martoon

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    From the article: "the sensor is connected like a flat antenna under the display."

    Interesting. I'd almost think electromagnetic, except that the last place you'd want to put an EM sensor is directly underneath a picture tube.

    Also, one thing they mentioned that hadn't occurred to me is that the controller can be turned sideways, and used like a classic NES pad. So it might not be too bad for classic style games.
     
  9. luggage

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    It's not like moving a mouse though - unless you requently lift the mouse to point at something on the wall.

    I'm sure it will work fine for particular types of games but others.... no.. sorry. Just can't see how it would work. One of the games I play the most is a football (soccer) game. It requires every button on a PS2 pad, and to combine those buttons. It just would work on that controller without the game having huge chunks cut away.

    And in the video it shows someone 'controlling' a platform game. Well, they flick the unit to make what I presume is a jump. But how will that work for a full game? Think how many buttons you press and actions you perform when action gets tense. Now translate that to you having to flick about with the controller and with fewer buttons. I'm sure they'll make some lovely little novelty games but I don't think it's going to be the next big thing.

    I'm hoping it's nothing more than a fancy, extra function, dvd controller and there's some real pads on the way.
     
  10. DangerCode

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    No, and despite claims to the contrary I think I am understanding it fully. :D

    I'll have to play some games with it before passing final judgement, but to me it seems like a cool gimmick, but a gimmick nonetheless.

    I enjoy playing games while laying back on the couch. I don't think want to swing a device maddly for hours on end.

    But who knows, my mind may change once I play around with it for a while.
     
  11. Martoon

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    I think that Nintendo is doing the best thing they can do in their situation. Looking at their market share compared to Sony's, they don't stand a chance going head to head with Sony with a similar product, and they know it. It's the same reason most developers on these forums aren't making FPS's to compete with Id.

    Some people in this thread have said they wouldn't like the Revolution controller because they couldn't effectively play the same kind of games they play now. But the thing is, those people probably wouldn't be buying a Revolution anyway (if they bought a next-gen console, it would likely be a PS3), so Nintendo isn't losing them as customers. I think there will be some novel, original games designed around the Revolution controller, and I'm guessing that some will have staying power and some won't. Remember, Nintendo was the first to popularize the gamepad, and that seemed a little strange to gamers used to a joystick ("What? You move with your thumb?"), but it has certainly been successful.

    Nintendo has clearly lost the console wars to Sony in terms of standard consoles, so they can either give up on (non-handheld) console hardware entirely, or try something outside the box to attempt to hold a smaller market share of people interested in something a little different. Apparently, they've opted for the latter.
     
  12. soniCron

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    Don't forget they also "invented" the analog thubmstick and triggers on a gamepad - something nobody else has chosen to "revolutionize" any further. (No pun intended! ;))


    I'd be tempted to disagree with you, about the market being smaller. You have to understand who already owns consoles right now: "gamers." In our business, we should be the first to recognize there is a huge demographic that don't want the fiddle and fuss of the commonly inaccessible systems and games. I am speaking, of course, of the "casual" audience. (And I mean that more literally than our common definition of "casual" as indie developers.)

    So, rather than learning arbitrary button configurations and placement, I see this very natural input style to be extremely accessible to both new gamers and old. In addition, by the looks of the controller (looking beyond the "revolutionary" part), I can see a great entry into the casual gaming world - I see there's a power switch on the controller itself. Since the system obviously has "soft" power, I suspect there may be either a "hibernation" function, or better, a requirement that all games save their data and immediately shut off.

    You can't get much more casual than this.

    Are these gimmicks? I don't think so. Understand that comparing current games (such as that scene of the woman playing the classic Mario platformer that I assume was being emulated) with this new input style is counter-productive. You see, these games were designed to be played with buttons. They, just like first person shooters on current consoles, would be a mere shadow of what they're supposed to be on their intended platform.*

    Don't write off the entire system because it's less than ideal for a few applications when it opens the doors of accessibility to so many more in such a big way.

    *Fortunately, the controller appears to be capable of being held sideways and used as a traditional NES input device. Unfortunately, this only further cements my thought that their download service will only feature classic NES games, and not their superior SNES brothers. Only time will tell, however.
     
  13. Mickey Crocker

    Mickey Crocker New Member

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    Also I would like to point out...

    I keep hearing people saying (not just here) that this new controller may be good for some games but not all. Well, the way I look at it is it isn't suppose to be, you can look at the same thing backwards. PS and XBox controllers may be good for some games, but not the Nintendo Revolution games!

    It's more about creating a whole new style of gaming and changing the way we play the games and not just the way they look. I'm tired of seeing the same gameplay over and over. Hell, if I have to give up a few games to have a whole new experience in gaming, then I am all for it.

    One thing can be said about this, the Nintendo Revolution will be able to play PS and XBox style games, but PS and Xbox won't be able to play Nintendo Revolution style games.
     
    #33 Mickey Crocker, Sep 16, 2005
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2005
  14. PoV

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    I love how the TV remote doubles as Nunchaku.

    Thumbs up to Nintendo. I actually wasn't expecting to be impressed, with all the hype surrounding it. I'm waving my TV remote around right now in anticipation. :D
     
  15. C.S.Brewer

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    I wasn't expecting much either, and wasn't expecting to hear about it so soon.
    can't wait to try it out.

    nintendo just makes me happy. It's kinda like christmas.

    I just hope the positioning works better than the powerglove!
     
  16. Bmc

    Bmc New Member

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    being that it's (around)20 years later I'm sure it will :)
     
  17. Hiro_Antagonist

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    I'm sad. I had a whole nice, articulate post written when I accidently hit the back button on my mouse. bye bye post.

    Summarized versions of what I said:

    1) For those of you who think this is just a remote control, you have very much missed the point of what makes this device amazing. My understanding is that the single largest factor about this thing is its positional awareness. It knows when it's moved on the X, Y, and Z axes, and it knows when it's *rotated* around said axes. That's 6-dimensional/axis control. That's entirely unprecidented in the gaming world. The closest we've seen is the mouse (fast and high-precision 2D, functionally random access) and the analog stick (slow and low-precision 2D for most things, not at all random access.) We're now looking at 3D + 3 axis control of fast (and possibly high-precision) control.

    2) If you only use your console for soccer/football, then this might not be the console for you. The revolution might very well have a hard time with that experience just like every console every made has a hard time doing what the Revolution will be able to do.

    3) Nintendo no longer has any interest competing in the hardware wars. They don't care about rendering umpteen million polygons. Their stated priorities (for the last couple of years) are: Low price point, high accessibility, style, usability, experimentation, and most importantly, FUN. Yes, more polygons are worth something, but they're supposed to me a means to an end for FUN. Instead, they end up generally just appealing to the hard-core gamer. I think Nintendo is going after the masses (again).

    4) Lastly, I would like to point out that I took my DS to a retreat of a few game instustry devs/producers, none of which had previous hands on experience with the DS or PSP. The PSP someone else brought was barely touched. My and my girlfriends' DS's were in constant use the entire weekend. If I put in the right games (certain warioware games/toys, Nintendogs, etc.) and put them in front of people, they smiled. SMILED! EVERY TIME! I can't point to any other device/game that exists and say that it will make people smile that try it. Everyone at that retreat was skeptical. Everyone become a convert. Can you name anything else that will deterministically make people SMILE?

    That's what can happen when you become focused on having fun in new ways rather than just pushing more polygons. I've always been a proponent of expanding the borders of games, and Nintendo is easily the biggest company to do it and has broken more barriers over its years than anyone else. Period.

    5) I'd like to point out that while the other two systems are experiencing price hikes in their games because they're becoming more expensive to produce (more polygons! higher-rez textures! more voice acting!), I haven't heard that apply to the Revolution. And we all know the Revolution console will be priced far below the others.

    -Hiro_Antagonist
     
  18. Martoon

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    I just can't figure out how they're doing this in a cost-effective way. My day job is lead developer at a VR center. For decent 6DOF electromagnetic motion trackers, we pay around $6000 for a 4-receiver tracker, or $2500 for a 2-receiver (and that isn't wireless). And yes, I realize a mass-produced console could do things cheaper, but there's still basic components in there that wouldn't be that much cheaper mass produced. From what I've read about the Revolution controllers, they seem to have true absolute positioning and orientation, which you just can't do cheap. I have no idea how they're doing this.
     
  19. Hiro_Antagonist

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    Just a theory, but perhaps they're taking a cue from optical mice and eyetoy and simply taking rapid camera images (from the doohicky on the front of the controller) and calculating deltas based on that?

    If that's the case, it would mean that it could probably be 'confused' by a good many things, and extrememly rapid movement could be one of those things, but it would explain how basically off-the-shelf hardware with some really clever software could mostly accomplish the same trick.

    I've also heard repeated speculation (long before the controller was revealed even) that the controller has some sort of gyroscope in it. I don't personally know how this would help, but that explanation has seemed to satisfy many people looking to know how it works at a high level.

    Whatever the solution, I think the whole reason they've been so secretive is because it *is* a clever trick they're using that they don't want anyone to steal before they can capitalize on it.

    -Hiro_Antagonist
     
  20. Bmc

    Bmc New Member

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    i'm sure it's prolly somewhat based off the same basic tech as wario ware twisted
     

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