New anti-spam systems (cliffski read this)

Discussion in 'Indie Related Chat' started by Jack Norton, Aug 15, 2004.

  1. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

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    I have recently seen many new programs that should stop spamming email and some where really fun.
    The first one used a classic method like "enter the code shown below in graphics" and I typed a REHJ89YE code to get email delivered.
    The second one was more fun, it showed a photo and asked how many giraffes were on it (reminded me of my game Quizland!! LOL).

    I think that those can be really the end of the spamming era, I don't see how they can beat that... :) and also a good opportunity to make money for tool/utilities programming, there will be a boom of those programs in near future I think... ;)
     
  2. robleong

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    I must say though that "How many giraffes?" sounds easy to beat. If I were a spammer, I'd just send spam with sequential answers from 1 to 50 - I'm sure the answer is one of that!
     
  3. MattInglot

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    The problem with these systems is that they are incredibly annoying on a personal level and effectively stop bulk mail of ANY kind (ie. your game newsletters will be rendered useless if this is adopted).

    I send 20-50 e-mails per day, many of which are not to people that are likely to have me on some sort of safe-list (customer support and answering questions about services mostly). Luckily I only encounter these things once a week or so. If I had to do that for every e-mail sent I would have to give up on providing support through e-mail and force customers to login to some sort of forum to get an answer. It's just not practical on any reasonable volume of mail.

    Another problem is that the subject of the code is sometimes very machine looking and comes off as spam. I've accidentally deleted several of these before while killing off the daily assortment of spam.

    Luckily this system is unlikely to become adopted (or so I hope!).
     
  4. grimreaper

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    Challenge-response systems are crap on so many levels. They put the cost of filtering on the sender :mad:

    I strongly recommend getting a bayesian filter - great performance. SpamBayes works great for my gf. For my own use I use crm114 (I got a setup at home which includes linux and bsd...) and it works great.

    grimreaper
     
  5. Mike Boeh

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    It got so bad for me that I bought a yahoo premium account, and have my dns provider redirect ALL mail through them... It works surprisingly well, their filters are definitely good.
     
  6. Jack Norton

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    Hmm interesting that Bayesian stuff :) I guess I'll have to install linux and a mail server on my other pc, as soon as I have a free week ;)

    I don't want to pay to get my email filtered, even if WHEN I'll get to retro64 point (will take a while, ehm) probably I'd need it :)
     
  7. cliffski

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    hold on, the cost of filtering SHOULD be on the sender. If they cant be arsed to answer 1 simple capcha then to be honest i dont want email from them.
    Ultimately the answer to spam is simple
    1) make it cost money to send each email or make it take up cpu power
    2) get isps to filter this crap at the server side before we even see it
    3) give sentences of at least 20 years hrd labour to anyone involved in spamming.

    I gave up on newsletters years ago, there is so much spam these days most would get ignored. I get maybe 10 real mails a day ands about 1200 spams. I wish i could kill those responsible with my bare hands.
     
  8. Kai Backman

    Original Member Indie Author IGF Finalist

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    I'm just about to relocate my dedicated and have wanted to get rid of the email server for ages ... :) What services did you consider and why did you end up with Yahoo (I assume you are using their "Business Mail" service)?
     
  9. Mike Boeh

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    I was getting several thousand spams per day, with a couple hundred making it through spam assassin and mailscanner. Mailscanner was running so much that my server cpu load started to become a problem. I chose yahoo because it was really cheap and effective. I just get the regular premium mail- not business or anything- $20 per year. I have *@retro64.com go there, and then have theBat! filter the incoming email based on who it's addressed to. Now my server cpu load is usually 0.0....

    Some of these people could be customers or potential customers. Whether or not they are capable of answering a simple challenge question is irrelevant- I still want to support them, and I still want their money :D
     
  10. Melin

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    right. that's why you didn't get any of my emails for a couple of months, because the filters considered them as spam.

    Surprisingly, yes, but good...i'm not sure :)
     
  11. EpicBoy

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    Yes, 1 simple question - every single time they want to send you an email? That's insane.
     
  12. Jack Norton

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    Hey hey wait :) isn't like that, they have to answer that question ONLY the first time. Then the program somehow put you in the whitelist and your emails are accepted automatically.
    That's acceptable in my opinion, even if could really cause problems with newsletters... :confused:
     
  13. EpicBoy

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    Hmm ... even then, I don't think I'd do it. I'd try to send the email, be sent back a link to go to a validation page, think "whatever", delete it, and never try again.
     
  14. Pyabo

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    How many giraffes... I like it.

    I recently read, however, about how spammers are getting around this and similar protection schemes. Basically, they are just forwarding the image to a porn site and having some random user at that site answer the question or read the machine-unreadable text (to see more free porn, type in the code!) and then get the answer back from them.
     
  15. Jack Norton

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    Well I agree with cliffski then... for those spammers there should be the death penalty!! :D
     
  16. AVataRR

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    Heh. All these strategies are good and well intentioned, but they're probably not the best way to do it. I think the Londoners have the right idea. :)

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/18/isp_war_on_spam/

    They punish the advertisers that use spam instead of trying to block an unstoppable torrent. If everyone did this, there'd be no market for "bulk e-mail".
     
  17. svero

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    The problem with these challenge systems is that two people using them cant talk.

    - I mail cliff,
    - his system challenges me
    - my system challenges his system

    End of communication
     
  18. Redclaw

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    Now that is ingenius!

    If only the spammers would use their power for good instead of evil. :)
     
  19. Coyote

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    The problem I see with this is that - gamer that I am - I see that as a way you can sabotage the competition. Now for a few hundred dollars, you can effectively knock them off the net until they've proven they weren't responsible for spam that got sent out on their behalf!
     
  20. Mike Wiering

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    I've been using POPFile for a few months now and it works fine. It works as a proxy and learns how to catagorize your mail into spam and normal mail or whatever catagories you choose. In the first weeks I had to correct it all the time, but now I hardly ever look at the messages that are filtered away. It doesn't delete mail, but marks the subject line with [SPAM] for example.
     

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