Monkey

Discussion in 'Game Development (Technical)' started by joe, Mar 6, 2011.

  1. Karja

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2004
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    0
    That made me laugh :) But yes, I agree with the sentiment. It's easy to learn a new language - learning a new paradigm is the hard part.

    Monkey is extremely interesting. My fingers are just itching to buy myself a copy and start a new project, but I have to finish the current game first! :(
     
  2. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    0
    you forgot about a third kind: people that complain about languages AND make games (I'm currently about to finish my 3rd game this year, and it's just april...) :cool:
     
  3. Roman Budzowski

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    May 7, 2005
    Messages:
    839
    Likes Received:
    2
    Jack, you're my hero :) We're fast, but not as fast as you. Our last release was in Dec 2010, few days ago we had our newest release, but in May we will have another one, but this makes 3 games in 6 months, not 1 a month :D
     
  4. Desktop Gaming

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,296
    Likes Received:
    12
    I started (on the PC) with Blitz Basic, then Blitz3D, Blitzmax, and Monkey (I bought it so I could reserve my username on the monkey site - not cos I'm actually using it yet).

    I find that with each evolution, it inches slightly closer to the syntax of C++. The problem with the folks who Roman mentioned (serial language complainers) - <polite mode>is that they never make anything and its always the fault of the tools provided</polite mode>.

    Or to put it bluntly, they always blame someone/something else for their own incompetence and/or laziness. These people actively collect programming languages with the expectation that one day they'll find one that magically makes their game for them with little to no effort.

    Blimey. Are you contracting for Idigicon? :D
     
  5. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok well actually I cheated, since Love & Order wasn't coded by me... so that's not so impressive as it seems. For 1 game/month you need to look to aldorlea :D though that's kind of cheating since he always use RPGMaker XP, while I at least code each game in python :p
     
  6. Raptisoft

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    0
    I actually think he's losing some market share by not making it more C-like or Java-like.

    Personally, I'd have been willing to pay $1000 for Monkey with a C-syntax. Oh, and the ability to set PC/Mac resolution and fullscreen on the fly.

    It's one of the most ambitious and wonderful projects I've ever seen. But let me type

    Code:
    Class TPoint
    {
    	float x;
    	float y;
    };
    
    instead of
    Code:
    Class TPoint
    	Field x:Float
    	Field y:Float
    End Class
    
    ...and seriously... I won't be able to spend my money on you fast enough.

    One funny thing while I was fiddling around with Monkey is that I found that I add semicolons to the end of lines completely automatically, without thought, and without any ability to prevent myself from doing it. I even asked for help on a forum debugging a simple line which I saw no problems with... it had a semicolon on the end, that was the error. :)
     
  7. Desktop Gaming

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,296
    Likes Received:
    12
    I saw that, and had a wee smile to myself at your expense. :D
     
  8. Bad Sector

    Original Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,742
    Likes Received:
    5
    @Raptisoft:
    There is one, it's called haXe and it is free.

    Out of curiosity, to all people who bought Monkey, why you bought it instead of using haXe? I'm seriously asking because i'm really baffled from this as i never expected anyone to buy such a tool (especially while considering how much people seem to dislike learning new languages). In fact i have both the knowledge and experience for making something similar (language design and implementation is something i like a lot and i've written many interpreters and compilers since i started programming) but still i have a hard time believing that anyone would buy such a thing. Somehow it doesn't make sense :p
     
  9. Desktop Gaming

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,296
    Likes Received:
    12
    Several reasons.

    1. I'd never heard of haXe at the time.
    2. I'm very familiar with Blitz products and Blitz Research (over ten years' worth).
    3. Monkey is not free, therefore ongoing development is actively funded by sales.
    4. I'm familiar with the Blitz community and its ability to extend existing products.
     
  10. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you write a working Renpy (or python) to Flash/HTML5 exporter/translator I'll buy it for $5k in cash. I'm not joking :)
     
  11. mwtb

    Original Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2005
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's not about the language, it's about the promise of a simple route to building for several platforms. HaXe, like many OS projects, fails to recognise the value of ease of use and having a single motivated point of contact for support. As I posted earlier, the reality of haXe support for cross-platform development seems to be that the language works fine, but you have to deal with shuffling and wrapping native libraries yourself. Lots of languages offer something similar and it's not particularly special.

    As for the earlier comment about "language complainers": this isn't a matter of rolling my eyes at typing "End" instead of "}". Monkey is deficient of features that are genuinely useful for serious development. It doesn't support interfaces, for example. It has limited abilities for creating namespaces and organising libraries. At a basic level it has quirky nonsense like considering newlines to be significant in some places but not others. It just feels very inconsistent and under-powered as a language. Considering that the developers have to have spent significant time looking at how the code converts to other languages I'm just amazed that they haven't taken a hint or two and brought it more into line with them.
     
    #71 mwtb, Mar 31, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2011
  12. Cartman

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ditto to all the above.
     
  13. Grey Alien

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    2,797
    Likes Received:
    0
    Pah, I've released 6 games (or more accurately SKUs) so far this year with another 4-5 due in April. An XBLIG game (port), a free Flash game, a free PC game, a Flash mini-game on Facebook, and two Mac App Store builds (existing IP). So yes not whole new commercial games I admit ;-p Let's see if I can hit 20 by the end of the year when I start using Monkey.
     
  14. Indiepath

    Indiepath New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Messages:
    999
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here, here! I plan to release at least one game by the end of the year - that's assuming I'm not too consumed with existing projects.
     
  15. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well if we include ports/remakes of existing old games is easy to add up the number! You're disqualified from the "who is going to make more games in 2011" competition :D
     
  16. Raptisoft

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    0
    Monkey... type code in window, push button, run.

    And I've seen the for-next loops in haXe... sorry, sometimes I just need to step more than one step at a time!!
     
  17. Mike Boeh

    Administrator Original Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    949
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am currently using haxe. It works and the language is really good. But man is it tough to get started- lots of little gotchas... I had a lot of little technical issues that are finally worked out across all platforms.

    haxe with hxcpp works in the exact same way as monkey. The thing monkey really has going for it imo is Mark. He has a great track record for making great languages. Had monkey been released a month earlier, I would be using it right now.

    The thing haxe has going for it is the language itself is very good and the fact that you can modify the source if needed.
     
  18. speeder

    speeder New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    0
  19. BrutoMemo

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    0
    Proton uses OpenGL only, bad for Windows.
     
  20. Bad Sector

    Original Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,742
    Likes Received:
    5
    This is my setup with haXe too :). I've written an article on haXe's wiki how to do that with jEdit. If you use FlashDevelop you don't need to do that though since it supports haXe out of the box (and provides syntax completion and code cleanup).

    Yeah the for loops are a small issue but *most* of the time you don't need to do that. In those cases, use a while.

    You might also be able to make your own "for" using the new haxe macros which work by allowing you to extend the language by writing code that works with the AST and executed at compile time.
     

Share This Page

  • About Indie Gamer

    When the original Dexterity Forums closed in 2004, Indie Gamer was born and a diverse community has grown out of a passion for creating great games. Here you will find over 10 years of in-depth discussion on game design, the business of game development, and marketing/sales. Indie Gamer also provides a friendly place to meet up with other Developers, Artists, Composers and Writers.
  • Buy us a beer!

    Indie Gamer is delicately held together by a single poor bastard who thankfully gets help from various community volunteers. If you frequent this site or have found value in something you've learned here, help keep the site running by donating a few dollars (for beer of course)!

    Sure, I'll Buy You a Beer