Microsoft Will Not Release DirectX 10 for Windows XP – ATI.

Discussion in 'Game Development (Technical)' started by Jason Chong, May 27, 2006.

  1. luggage

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    I fail to see how Microsoft have ruined the computer industry. If you remember PC's from way back when I'm sure you'll remember the headache of working with them. We worked on a game where the boss wouldn't fork out for Miles Sound Drivers (middleware) so we had to write a driver for every single sound card that was available. DirectX came along and (eventually) put an end to all that.

    Comparing Microsoft to the Amiga is not a fair comparison. The Amiga had the advantage of a consistant set of hardware, the PC hasn't. Until Microsoft came along with their OS and attempted to get some standards in the PC market it was all over the shop.
     
  2. Savant

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    I was wondering when this would turn into yet-another-Microsoft-is-evil rant platform. I think we should call this the "Fabio factor" - a measure of the amount of time before any thread with the word "Microsoft" in the title devolves into this inane crap.
     
  3. Fabio

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    Savant, you just wasted your Nth great, undeserved chance to shut your stinking mouth up. If I turn every other thread into an anti-Microsoft discussion I can only be proud of this, I also have the experience to do it, you instead turn every other thread into a flamewar or a damn stupid anti-clone thread, without ever having released one single damn game and by then "coherently" promoting "1 good game" a Marble Madness CLONE. When will you release a damn single game? But can you even code at all? You're a royal waste of precious time and definitely act as a fly: you disturb a lot giving nothing, absolutely nothing valuable back. When will you release a damn single game I ask? We've been waiting for this disease for years now. Give it to us or shuddup with your stupid and useless provocations. Thank you Savant for remembering us that you exist, I admit I was happily going to forget.
     
  4. Fabio

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    Too many oldies (those that can actually speak, having been there) absolutely think this.. just Google if you're curious about history.

    First of all, the MSDOS that Microsoft finally saved us from was a.. Microsoft product. Second, DirectX with its caps is a mess. If it took 10 releases to remove them (and we've yet to see), then there's definitely something wrong.
    Compatibility? Ever tried to run a game that uses DirectX 1,2,3 or sometimes even 5 or 6? Most don't work at all on today's PCs. Talk about compatibility! I am certainly not defending MSDOS, but my old MSDOS VESA/SB games all run at least.

    Microsoft, with its immense power, could have unified the PC hardware into well defined guidelines (and has done it, but only to the extent that has been convenient for its own profit and to destroy other companies and other OS's which couldn't write drivers for all cards out there).

    Do you think that the same couldn't have been achieved by OS2 or Linux, to name just two?

    Microsoft has always bothered only about its own profit and to destroy other companies, using mafia style actions whenever it was convenient or not too risky. It has been investigated and punished for its mob practices many times, so it's not exactly as candid as Savant sees it with his eyes.
    Very rarely the Microsoft's own good (profit) has coincided with the industry's and users' own good, and I won't thank MS for these rare coincidences.

    Savant is the perfect Microsoft employee: too bad even they don't want to hire him. :D
     
  5. PeterM

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    I agree that MS certainly had the muscle to help unify the PC platform early, but hardware manufacturers are the ones that really caused it not to happen.

    For example, you have some product, which is the only one available, the implicit 'standard'. Then another product comes along, either from the same vendor or another one, which is incrementally better than the previous product.

    So now you have two standards. What else can people do, but support both?
     
  6. Fabio

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    Products of a certain type have similar characteristics, that's why VESA worked for graphics cards even long before DirectX was released. A bad example of standardization, but that yet works, is OpenGL. So..

    While nothing should cripple innovation, the NDA you have to sign to develop a driver for a certain card is not exactly free market, even more when they don't give you that info neither if you sign all NDA's in the world. This has prevented for many years the release of Linux drivers for many boards, making lotsa people unhappily stick with Windoze, and killed many other OS's that would otherwise exist today, and that not exist not because the authors couldn't write thousands drivers for them (or at least the most worth ones), but because the information to do so was denied and many witnessed that Microsoft pushed (incentive, threat or whatever else, it doesn't change the substance of things) many manufacturers to not release this info to the other OS's makers.

    Nor is free market to force millions of users to buy Vista just to run DX10 games when one wouldn't have otherwise found a single reason to spend that money for yet another hyperbloated OS. Microsoft forces you to have needs you don't really have to then sell you its products.

    Do we really have a choice in this market as users or developers? Is this really a free market? Is the best product that always wins, as it should be, or the one that wins is the product with the most powerful company behind, although it is well known to be technically poor?

    Would Microsoft even exist today if its successes or insuccesses were only due to its technical merits, and not all its mob style practices and at-art-created monopoly?
     
  7. Savant

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    Wowsers! Such hostility.
     
  8. Bouncer

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    Fabio: Welcome to the world. Who says that best product should always win? It's the same in every business... Microsoft has done nothing wrong by pursuing a monopoly in the business. Blame the capitalism. Your ranting about Microsoft being somehow worse than other companies is absurd... If commodore had been a success in it's time, it would have made the same decisions as a company as microsoft.
     
  9. luggage

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    Fabio - You are being exceptionally unbalanced in your view. I really can't be bothered going through your 'points' as it's more like a post I'd see on slashdot than a reasoned argument.
     
  10. Savant

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    You've now experienced "The Fabio Factor". It burns a little but it goes away with indifference.
     
  11. Fabio

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    Hail Bill, he actually invented the computer in a garage!

    :p
     
  12. Fabio

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    Get a girlfriend to bother, Savant. Get a life at least. It's about time.
     
  13. Fabio

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    Thanks but I already noticed this, can I be unhappy about it at least?
    While I'm a strong believer in the free-market, I never said that capitalism is perfect, did I?
    That's completely arguable. Saying that all companies are the same given the same opportunities is like saying that all people are the same. This simplicistic theory has been proven wrong infinite times. Otherwise you also think that all governors are the same, that e.g. if instead of Bush you had Gore then the latter would have done every single thing that Bush has made (and while democrats and republicans look the same, there could be much better examples in other countries were politicians are much more hetereogeneous), or that if instead of Saddam there was some human rights leader then the latter would have done all the things Saddam did, sitting on the same chair having the same huge power.
    No, this is plain wrong also for companies: while (expecially corporations) being strongly motivated by profit, no other computer industry company has behaved like Microsoft. Unlike what Bill would make you believe, the anti-Microsoft feeling is quite unique both in the computer industry as well as in other industries. Nobody hates Hilton for being what it is, although many hate McDonalds because eating its food is like eating s*it. But nobody hates [SIZE=-1]General Motors or Toyota for being the biggest car producers in the world, because they make decent products, and as far as we know they got where they are by competition, not by mob practices. Nobody hates Philips (or whoever it is) for being the biggest TV producer in the world. All the trials/proceedings Microsoft had and still has are out of envy (?! for making so much money out of such crap products??) in your opinion?[/SIZE]
    When IBM was the biggest company in the industry, although it made illegal things (and has been punished for this) nobody had the feeling that it was so much detrimental for the users' interests and whole industry as Microsoft has become. Other BIG companies, like HP, Sun and Xenix while still being driven by profit sit on much legally-cleaner and morally-higher chairs than Microsoft does. As Latins used to say: "vox populi, vox dei".
     
  14. J.A.W

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    Although I dislike WIndows, it has helped bring computing to the masses. Linux is only starting to become user friendly, and Macs are still at premium price...

    As i'm new here i'm curious as to your development and target platforms Fabio given your hatred of MS Windows?
     
  15. Fabio

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    Mostly Commodore and Atari (secondarily also Sinclair, Amstrad and others) have helped bring computing to the masses. Do you really really think that computers would not be widespread today if the wonderful Windows hadn't existed? The PC is not a home computer thus it has not helped to bring computer to the masses. At a certain moment in time Commodore and Atari ceased to fill that market and it has been filled with what remained and already was known due to its widespread office use, the PC.

    You say you're new but I read the above as a provocation. I've already answered in detail in another post, and I don't want to go through it again. I am coherent with my own life priorities, always been, always will be. Yet I think Windows is pushed on ours throats and I want to say it.
     
  16. J.A.W

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    It wasn't provocation, I haven't seen your other post and was wondering if you develop on Windows for Windows, or Linux for Windows, or Mac for Mac, or Mac for Windows, or some other combination etc..

    If Amiga, Atari, Amstrad etc were still popular do you think they would have agreed to a common OS? Or would we have to deal with porting across 4 or 5 platforms?


    Anyway, as long as we get DX7 backwards support in Windows I'm relatively happy... ;)
     
  17. Fabio

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    For scientifical and server-like applications there already was and is a standard OS: Unix.

    For multimedia applications I don't feel the need for a standard OS, and I would have kept coding games only for the Amiga and its successors anyway, or any other machine worth, by developing specifically for that, to exploit its full potential (to avoid things like those Amiga games ported straight from the Atari ST, where the powerful Amiga coprocessors weren't touched, and the game was actually even slightly slower on the Amiga, due to the multimedia-synched 7.16MHz clock vs 8MHz clock of the same 68000 CPU).

    If you need/want porting to several platforms, then use C++ and write for each host OS/hardware all those modules that are non-standard in C++: audio, video, input. There are already libraries for that anyway.

    For games and multimedia in general I don't think that a common OS would have been a good thing, at all.
     
  18. Speckled Jim

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    That's a lot of hostility. The pc may have started out as an office machine, and for many years was only fit to be so, with audio that consisted of a beeping speaker, and 4 colour CGA graphics, but what we have today is a worthy successor to the old 8 and 16 bit home computers.

    Is MS too powerful? Almost certainly, but the standards that it brings, closed or not have made pc development a sane prospect. I doubt many people would like to still be dealing with the nightmare that was DOS mode, or trying to support multiple sound cards with no common API.

    As for the Amiga, I can't say I miss it much, but then my memory of it is tainted by having to use one directly to develop on. It was much less painful after I got PDS for it.
     
  19. Sakura Games

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    Indeed, I don't miss at all the DOS times. The DirectX is not very performant? who cares, you buy a pc and after 4 months is already old... :D
    I prefer spend time developing my games/ideas than fixing a buggy driver for video card SVGA/XXX honestly...
     

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