Microsoft Will Not Release DirectX 10 for Windows XP – ATI.

Discussion in 'Game Development (Technical)' started by Jason Chong, May 27, 2006.

  1. Jason Chong

    Jason Chong
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    "Microsoft Corp., the world’s largest maker of software, will not release next-generation graphics application programming interface (API) called DirectX 10 for the currently shipping Windows XP operating system (OS), instead, the company will keep the new API strictly for the forthcoming Windows Vista OS, despite earlier assumptions about DirectX 10 for the XP."


    Read more at...

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20060525104034.html
     
  2. Sybixsus

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    But of course. Vista only really has three things going for it. It has some nice networking improvements over XP. It has a pretty transparent interface that will interest people for ten minutes before they realise it's consuming more system resources than your average video editing application and turn it all off, and the fact that every new HP, Dell, etc customer will be stuck with it whether they want it or not.

    So they're going to have to force us to upgrade. Halo 2, DirectX 10. Expect to see more joining the list soon.

    Don't really like it, but it's sensible marketing. Problem: You have a product that people aren't too bothered about. Solution: Make it essential for several other products which people are slightly more bothered about.
     
  3. PeterM

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    It's a bit sad really, since Halo 2 obviously doesn't need to use more than DX8 if it runs on the original Xbox. Unless I'm missing something.

    I understand that MS want people to switch, and that the new driver system is awesome for sure, but I can forsee a lengthy painful transition period of developers clinging on to DX9 (or lower for casual devs) while MS (and in turn NVIDIA, ATI, Intel, etc) gradually drop support for it.

    It's going to be fun...
     
  4. J.A.W

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    I dual boot Windows and Linux, and the only thing I need Windows for nowadays is games. I've been following the Vista news and discussions for years and i think when MS inevitably force me to upgrade by making WinXP obsolete i shall banish Windows from my system altogether rather than buy that steaming pile they call Vista. How many rewrites has it had? how many of its features have been dropped? how many times has it been delayed? How many damn versions of it are there? Its the joke of the IT industry is it not? :D

    The writing is on the wall for them.. and they know it!
     
  5. Anthony Flack

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    Microsoft have the operating system market pretty much sewn up, but nobody really needs to buy any more copies of Windows any more. So I guess this sort of tactic is going to be increasingly strong-arm (perhaps moving to a subscription model at some point). I wonder how long they can keep it up for? Eventually, if you keep milking people they are going to go elsewhere, like J.A.W.

    XP isn't exactly old.
     
  6. dxgame

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    So will our older games still work on this new OS or not? (Games that use DX7, 8, 9, etc..)
     
  7. Jim Buck

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    Yes, Microsoft has generally been pretty pro-active about making sure things are backward-compatible. No worries about older games working unless they are from DOS days (even then, I think a good number of those work), but that's not any different than how much DOS games work on XP.
     
  8. Anthony Flack

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    Because it would be awfully stupid if their new OS stopped older programs from working. People would really be happy about making unneccessary and expensive upgrades then.
     
  9. Michael Flad

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    DirectX 10 requires hardware to really support quite a lot of features (i.e. no caps checking horror just to give each hardware vedor the option to support whatever subset they like to support - there will still be some caps, but not the amount gamedevs are used to) so chances are probably very high, that very few existing cards used int XP systems will be DX10 compatible anyways.

    Even Aeroglass is based on DX9 so it'll be probably a safe bet for the next decade in casual/indie games - really no reason to worry. DX10 will just make highend gamedev a bit more comfortable regarding graphics hardware - and eventually indiegames will get those benefits too.
     
  10. J.A.W

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    Isn't DirectDraw (last in DX7) still the API of choice for old style 2d devs though, or has everyone switched to doing 2d with 3d hardware? I'm sure there was talk of dropping support for DX7 (and so DirectDraw)? Perhaps i;m just stuck in the dark ages ;-)

    So will DX10 ship with the Home Basic Edition of Vista? This is interesting because if it *does* come with DX10, then most likely the PC won't have decent 3d hardware to make use of much of it?

    Besides, i;m sure my office pc is going to remain on WinXP for a while yet (which i;m sure will be the case in most offices) and this is the small (casual) games to "play at work" category...
     
    #10 J.A.W, May 28, 2006
    Last edited: May 28, 2006
  11. Donavon Keithley

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    Wow.

    This means it's going to be years before developers will be able to target DX10 exclusively. If I were (still) a retail game developer, I'd be furious.

    The latest hardware features won't be accessible for the majority of PCs for years to come (notwithstanding that this will induce many hardcore types to upgrade to Vista). If I were NVIDIA or ATI, I'd be furious.

    Games will have to support DX9 as a fallback for years to come, which gloriously complicates development. If I were a middleware vendor, I'd be tickled pink.

    Apparently Microsoft is more interested in accelerating the sales of a relatively small number of Vista upgrades than in nurturing the PC as a gaming platform.
     
  12. Savant

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    I think it's more accurate to say that they are interested in accelerating the sales of XBox units.
     
  13. arcadetown

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    Sounds good to me. DX10 doesn't really add anything for us casual games nor a stagnating pc core gamer market.

    Unlike on the Mac where users seem to love being whacked over the head with some new incompatibility of the year due to the latest os or hardware release. Some people simply love pain.
     
  14. Michael Flad

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    Sure - it's just like a lot of indiegames (even silghtly more "hardcore" alike projects like Wik) still support software rendering while consumer 3D was already available back in the last days of DOS, i.e. 5 Windows versions ago.
    Supporting fallbacks for a pretty broad range of hardware and/or apis is what PC games had to do since they exist - cga,ega,vga dx,gl,glide you name it.

    The real hardcore gamer will do a big upgrade at least after about 2 years (that'll be 2-4 new generations of gfxcards) and they're what the DX10 games aim at - add a development cycle of 24-36 months and you're there.

    Less hardcore games can use DX9 for a long time so I don't see any disadvantage.

    Microsoft is doing just the right thing with DX10 to support developers. One of the biggest advantages of consoles is the fixed hardware - it's obviously not possible in the PC market but it's probably the biggest possible step in that direction, given the nature of the systems/market.
     
  15. Donavon Keithley

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    Targeting multiple APIs (talking here about big-budget retail development) is *very* expensive -- in terms of development, testing, and support. Nobody does it without good reason, and if that reason is only because Vista's marketing people are trying to be heroes and save the day -- well, that's not what I consider supporting developers (nor the platform itself).

    Developers have only recently begun to stop supporting Windows 98. Vista is not going to appear on anybody's min spec for a very long time to come.
     
  16. Savant

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    Yeah, but it's only going to affect you as a developer if your game requires something in DirectX 10. If you're coding to that high of a spec, requiring Vista probably isn't asking too much of your users.
     
  17. Donavon Keithley

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    Okay, so say you want to take advantage of geometry shaders. If that means excluding even 10% of your potential audience, marketing and management will veto you on this. Your option is to either stick with DX9 or fall back to DX9.

    On the last game I worked on, about two years ago, we very much wanted Win2k for the min spec. The estimate came in that something like 5-8% (I don't recall exactly) of our relatively hard-core audience was still on Win98. No deal -- the game has to run on Windows 98.

    EDIT: It's a cost-benefit analysis. If supporting DX9 proved to be sufficiently expensive, I can see dropping the 10% of the market, but not much more.
     
    #17 Donavon Keithley, May 28, 2006
    Last edited: May 28, 2006
  18. Fabio

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    Mobosoft strikes again. :D

    If Bill Gates runs as president of the U.S.A. prepare to see many more wars in the future (such as "preemptive invasion of Cupertino", or "capture Thorvalds and lock him without process in Guantanamo forever"). Seriously, I'm really sick of this company and its practices.. I'm not (technically speaking) a fan of Linux at all, but I hope every day that it smashes the Windows market preferably sooner or eventually later, once and for all.
     
  19. Fabio

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    Mobosoft strikes again. :D

    If Bill Gates runs as president of the U.S.A. prepare to see many more wars in the future (such as "preemptive invade Cupertino"). Seriously, I'm really sick of this company and its practices.. I'm not (technically speaking) a fan of Linux at all, but I hope every day that it smashes the Windows market preferably sooner or eventually later, once and for all.

    Coming from the Amiga world, I know how much MS has ruined the computers industry, to offer nothing valuable back. The computer world would be much much much better today if Bill never bothered the world with his money ambitions.
     
  20. Game Producer

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    Well...

    1) When Windows Vista will be available? Like... in year 2910 (or 2008 or something). That's two or three years anyway.

    2) We use Direct7 or DX8 for heaven's sake. DX7 will work on windows vista. We use technology that's been here for over a decade.

    So, as a developer: this doesn't mean nothing to indies.

    As a player: you need to update to get to play the new DX10 games. But of course you don't want to play those - as you enjoy playing indie games. Right?
     

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