Leaving your data out in the open

Discussion in 'Game Development (Technical)' started by radishan, Dec 22, 2004.

  1. BedroomCoder

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    Well, what if I told you I have no social life, haven't ever had a girlfriend, don't generally like most of the people I meet, haven't "been out" for about 12 months and that that was all before I had ever heard of Greenday?


    I put it in the form of a song lyric because I thought it was a novelty way of describing it, not to say "omfg greenday r teh kings ov everyfing!!!11".

    The majority? Well I don't seem to know many of them. I don't know many people who don't use rips at least once every 2 or 3 months, and havent even met anybody who'd think it would even cross their minds that using an image found with Google for one of their projects was even unethical. Maybe its because I live in a "rough area" (which I don't, for the slow - I live in a bloody boring little "peaceful" town, and the only louts around are "chavs" and I hate their guts). Maybe its because I'm not a bible addict, or maybe its because I don't live 100% by the law. Maybe I deserve to get decapitated for it! :eek:

    Do you even have a statistic for that quote, about the majority? Are you just going by personal experiance? Are you just talking out of your ass? (little game to play here: spot the rhetorical question.)
     
    #81 BedroomCoder, Dec 29, 2004
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2004
  2. halodrake

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    Just shoot me right now. Put me out of my misery.

    Why the hell was the thread on programming languages locked but not this one?
     
  3. BedroomCoder

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    Dunno. I got a feeling this aint my sorta forum anyway.
     
  4. halodrake

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    I hope gypsies use your liver for divination.
     
  5. BedroomCoder

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    Hmmmm, they'd better not do that, might not be ethical.

    Seriously, why am I not allowed to display what I class as right? "Oh, I'd better lie to you so I can bullshit about where I get my sound effects from." I'm not trying to show off or anything, I'm just saying that someday you're gonna have to face facts - not everyone consults the law before taking a breath, and I'm one of those people. I haven't killed anyone, I haven't robbed anyone of about more than 10 pence worth of audio, I haven't raped anyone... its not like I am or ever have been the prime suspect in a murder case or anything. I know someone selling counterfit DVD's, albums and PC games so he can get extra cash. If you want to go rant at people, rant at people like him. Find some ripping forum and spam it, I dunno, anything.
     
    #85 BedroomCoder, Dec 29, 2004
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2004
  6. EpicBoy

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    The key is: knowing when to shut up.

    Let it go.
     
  7. BedroomCoder

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    I really think I oughtta leave. It seems the morals of this place don't agree with mine... and I can't resist retorting. Byeeeeeeee
     
  8. oNyx

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    Well, it... depends. My 5 year old hdd can read at about 25mb/s. So there isn't much speed to lose anyways (talking about the usual filesizes for indy games).

    And compression... I would put compressed files (ogg, jpg etc) into an uncompressed archive. Compressing that archive won't shove off much bytes anyways.

    Right now I'm using a mix of lossy/compressed data (ogg) and lossless uncompressed data (tga, levels, configs, classes etc), which are stored in uncompressed archives. Traveling through the net those archives are either zip, p200/gzip or lzma compressed. The TGAs for example take less room there than strongly compressed PNGs (eg with PNGOUT).

    On the client side I avoid quite a lot of data transformations, resulting in a loading speed increase of 10-20x for the textures. On older hardware that is. I guess the effect will be smaller on newer machines, but it will be fast enough there either way.

    I suggest to just try it for yourself(*). Check the pro and cons and decide which way to pick. Just don't put compressed data into a compressed archive (on the client side). And don't forget the installer step. A bunch of uncompressed TGAs in an uncompressed archive will result in a smaller installer than a bunch of PNGs.

    (* You just have to. It all depends on the language and the used libs.)
     
  9. Anthony Flack

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    Epicboy, Halodrake, Ricardo C - your sneering condescension isn't very endearing. Hopefully Bedroomcoder hasn't been driven out for good by your superior attitudes.

    As for morality being defined by whatever the majority agrees with - I don't think so. Reasoned philosophical enquiry would be a better bet. Who was saying "think for yourself" just a moment ago?
     
  10. gmcbay

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    In my experience, the majority of people think piracy is A-OK as long as it is easy to do (eg. BitTorrent, pre-lawsuit Napster, etc). So are you sure you want to use that as the measuring stick?
     
  11. Ricardo C

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    Is your patronizing judging any different?

    Not to speak for EpicBoy, but I believe he was referring to the fact that the "law of the land", perfect or not, is agreed upon by those who chose to live in the country it governs. If you benefit from the system, then you should respect its rules. His references to morality were made only in direct response to the kid's challenges.
     
  12. halodrake

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    Actually, I wasn't even talking about his piracy, or any of that ethical mumbo-jumbo. I'm against it, and I think anyone who wants to get into the shareware game *should* be against it. Mainly because it turns you into a hypocrite if you try and sell something you made with stuff you got for free.

    Nope, I was just making a comment on his high-school level pop philsophy way of looking at life. If he was making intellegant remarks about the ethics of piracy, then it would all be different to me. But it's just something about the way he talks (or writes, rather) that makes me lose all respect for anything he ever says.
     
  13. Mark Fassett

    Moderator Indie Author

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    Heh - it probably hasn't been locked because either no one has reported it, or all the mods looked at the title and went "nothing to see there, move along".
     
  14. Anthony Flack

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    Yes, that much is obvious. He's 14 years old and you guys just hate that. He's made a few reasonable points and gotten rubbished in return. He harmlessly quotes a song lyric and you guys are falling over yourselves to show how much contempt you have for him.

    I think this is an important discussion. We all are in the business of selling IP, so it's something that affects us all. That's probably why it hasn't been locked yet, but unfortunately it looks like it's heading that way. The subject deserves a better discussion than this.

    I wasn't being patronising.
     
  15. Anthony Flack

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    Back on track, perhaps:

    That's law, not morality though (presuming we're talking about a democracy here). Laws get decided by majority decision (sort of), it's true. The second part is more interesting though... care to elaborate on this? What about if you don't benefit from the system? What if you benefit more from not respecting the rules? Why is the question of whether you benefit or not important?
     
  16. Anthony Flack

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    Does it, though? I would think it would only turn you into a hypocrite if you, in turn, agressively prosecuted people who used your work to make derivative works in a similar manner.
     
  17. Ricardo C

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    You benefit from it every time your exercise your rights as established and proteced in the law, every time you make use of a facility or service made possible by tax money, and, more specifically to this discussion, every time your creative rights are protected by the law you despise so much.

    Then you're violating the rights of the rest of the community and they must be protected.

    Because if there's no respect for the law, the "system", including those nice rights and protections you don't mind exercising, collapse. I'm sure that's fine and dandy for armchair anarchists who have never actually had to live through a complete breakdown of society, but for those of us who've had even a taste of it, it's a different matter.

    Wrong. It turns you into a hypocrite the second you make use of copyright law to protect your work while you refuse to respect someone else's use of the same.
     
  18. luggage

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Making use of copyright law requires you prosecute and you enforce the law. So when you say "the second you make use of copyright law to protect your work" you're talking about prosecuting people?

    I'd agree with the first quote. If one person abuses the copyright, and in turn they don't mind if someone abuses their copyright, where's the hypocrisy?
     
  19. halodrake

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    Are you reading the same posts as me? Interesting points? Where? I don't care what age he is- that's no excuse.

    No. What I meant by *free* was pirated software. If he wants to sell shareware games, he's expecting people to do what he did not, which is pay for something that someone had worked on. If he didn't pay for it, then why should anyone pay for what he does? Why shouldn't people pirate his software? If he pirates software, and then someone pirates his software, he has no leg to stand on. Not to add in the fact that he's stealing money from people and keeping it for himself.

    Ricardo- well said.
     
  20. rodent

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    It is perfectly legal to edit sounds into new ones.

    Laws are made by an extremely small minority.

    Capitalism promotes constant search for profitable holes in laws and regulations.

    May the one who hasn't used non-licensed software or media please stand up.
     

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