J Force Games Needs a Programmer. Guaranteed Profit Share.

Discussion in 'Indie Related Chat' started by J Fizzle, Feb 20, 2008.

  1. J Fizzle

    J Fizzle New Member

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    Go directly to the post.

    This is not a typical job ad. It is a detailed explanation of the position, project, team, and why this game will succeed. It is very long, and kind of ‘ranty.’ It is written this way due to our lack of experience and because you're only receiving profit share rather than a salary. Such circumstances require more persuasion and details. But this is a very serious endeavor that will be a big part of your life, so you should want to know as many details as possible before joining. I would, at least.

    If you don’t want to read the whole thing right now, at least read the 4 main selling points.

    Why You Should Join Our Team:

    1. I am completely convinced that you will not find an indie team with a better marketing campaign than ours, simply because I have the proper mindset and I’ve done more research. Read more under Marketing.

    2. Guaranteed profit share. Goal & estimation of over $100,000 gross revenue within the first year of release. This is not just a whimsical guess. It is based on 8 months of extensive, objective market research. Read more under Compensation.

    3. Guaranteed finished game to put on your resume. I am absolutely determined to not only finish this game, but ensure that it is a success. I am going to do everything in my power to make this my career. Read more under Compensation also.

    4. This is an excellent team to join. Not only will you be paired up with a top-notch marketer, you also get assistance & guidance from an experienced programmer, and a young, dedicated programmer to help with tedious, grunt work. Best of all, you will join a talented, devoted artist, and a brilliant designer who will ensure that this game is perfectly designed. Read more under Team Structure.

    Read the whole post at JForceGames.com.
     
  2. GeneralGrant

    GeneralGrant New Member

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    1) Join an AAA game studio.
    2) Buy the “we will sell millions!” speech.
    3) Work like hell for two years to ship the game.
    4) Realize that you won’t get shit.
    5) Rinse and repeat.

    Sorry, this sounds all too familiar and you don’t even get a salary during development. I do agree, however, that many indies seems to have weak marketing strategies. In my opinion, Introversion is a great example of how far you can get with good marketing. But I suggest you focus more on selling your game idea and why it’s really cool. A split of potential revenue down the line doesn’t really attract those of us that have heard it all before or have been part of other amateur groups that dissolved but a really cool idea might get us interested.
     
  3. papillon

    Indie Author

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    See also the 'paid positions only' notice.
     
  4. J Fizzle

    J Fizzle New Member

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    This is a paid position, you just have to wait.

    Also, the main reason they have that rule in place is to discourage the "hey I have this really nifty game idea but all i just need is a programmer and some artists and of course Ill be the boss" posts.

    This post is far from that.

    And yet there's so much more they could be doing...
     
    #4 J Fizzle, Feb 20, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2008
  5. joshg

    joshg New Member

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    "Paid position" to me means I'm paid for my time, not paid if and only if the game sells.

    Also, emphasizing how your job opening is "guaranteed" to make money ranks high on the BS-ometer if you're unwilling to commit to a minimum dollar value. If there's no set minimum wage for the work, there's no guarantee. Don't run around saying you're guaranteeing money when you're not.
     
  6. Maupin

    Original Member

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    Has anyone on your team made any games before?

    If not, I'd start with a simple single player game so you can experience how much work goes into even a small crappy game... and how your team works together. Seriously.

    And agreed that paid means a contract for money.
     
  7. Pyabo

    Original Member

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    And this post is different from that how .... ?

    Really, what you're saying is that the FAQ needs to be clarified to mean PAID IN ADVANCE. And I agree!
     
  8. Backov

    Original Member

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    This is pretty much exactly what the rules say that they don't want. A team that's never finished even a little game, and the one committed person that's the idea man - but of course, you'll make 100k plus in the first year. :)

    Not trying to be too negative, good luck to you, but this is not the place for this post.
     
  9. J Fizzle

    J Fizzle New Member

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    Alright. I apologize. I guess this post should be deleted then.

    But you guys should at least sign up for our mailing list. Seriously. Surely you are curious to see if we succeed or not.
     
  10. Reactor

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    J Fizzle, if you haven't made a game before (and even if you have) you're going to be in for many big surprises when you hit the road- none of them good ones. What you're saying here is, "Hey, follow me though this minefield. I have no idea what the layout is, but I just know I'll make it because I have the determination to make it through."

    If I were looking for a way through the minefield I sure as heck wouldn't go wandering through with some guy who'd never been through a bunch of times before... unless he could fly. Looking over your webpage, the impression I get is that what skill you have doesn't equate to being able to fly. In fact, it looks to me like you're only starting to crawl.

    You've rocked up on a forum filled with people who know the realities of game creation and marketing. Before deciding you and your team are indestructible, can I suggest taking down a few notes (and a reality check) before proceeding?

    I should add- that'd be to your advantage, that you would succeed, not that you'd go nowhere.
     
  11. J Fizzle

    J Fizzle New Member

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    So you're saying that I don't know what I'm getting myself into? That I haven't taken enough notes? What do you think I've been researching all this time?

    Now I know, yes, all the research in the world cannot replace experience. But still...without that experience, there's no way I could be more prepared than I am now. I've taken far more then enough notes. I am all 'note-taked' out. I am ready to dive in. Did you read the marketing section?

    Also I really need to hear your criticisms of the website. Give it to me as harsh as possible. You will not hurt my feelings no matter what you say.

    And I don't understand your last sentence. Clarify, please?
     
  12. GeneralGrant

    GeneralGrant New Member

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    I would be very interested in hearing your opinion on what more they could do. As far as I can see they really do have it all. Poster child of the IGF, hailed in both online reviews and magazine prints, selling through steam, a rabid loyal community and generally regarded as the only indies left and true source of innovation. It would be fun to know how to one-up them because, god, they do piss me off. ;)

    (Well, not really. I’m a fan of Introversion but their last-of-the-bedroom-programmers mentality is a little old by now.)
     
  13. OremLK

    Indie Author

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    Why are you spending all of this time on "market research"? Just go make a game! You say you spent 8 months on market research--you could have an entire game, and maybe even two finished in that time. You'd already have a product to sell, and any market research you did would actually be making you money right now because you'd be putting it into practice.
     
  14. tagged

    Original Member

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    Sorry but I agree, you don't know what your getting yourself into. You can research/read all the books on game design/creation in the world and still have to dodge 1000's of bullets you never expected. You can research for 10 years yet a person who makes one single game will understand more than you in the areas that count in game development.

    Remember your asking for a programmer, and without any idea of the process of creating a game from scratch to completion, your playing pin the tale on the programmer while blindfolded.

    If you believe the game will make you rich, take out a loan or get a 2nd job and hire a programmer. Simple as that.
     
  15. Reactor

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    That's exactly my point, thanks tagged.

    Good to hear, but apparently you've missed the note which said not to approach the thing like you're doing ;)

    Sure, but my point is as much as you feel you have your bases covered (so to speak) there are things you're missed, and this could greatly impact your projections on success. I'll be back later with a bit of website feedback.

    Just ignore that... it was just my way of saying all this negative feedback isn't about having a go at you. It's about helping you move forward. But, I wrote it pretty badly ;)
     
  16. Desktop Gaming

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    You managed to get all the way to the second line of your game description before you started billing it as "a game like <insert game names here>". That's always a bad sign. Even your characters are based on characters from other games and you wrote things like "Link type character" on the top of your concept art rather than giving the characters a name of your own!

    Your comment about how you'll make $100,000 based on selling at $20 a time and "that's only 5,000 copies". Only 5,000 copies?! You try getting out there and actually shifting 5,000 units mate! Saying it is one thing, actually doing it is quite another.

    I'm not saying you haven't made an effort but I am saying you've approached the whole thing with an air of naivety. With this in mind, I don't think you'll ever finish this game in a million years, but I wish you the best of luck.
     
  17. J Fizzle

    J Fizzle New Member

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    I didn't think I could become any more motivated than I already was, but all this negativity has done just that.

    I cannot spend the time to retort all these comments. I have too many applicants to deal with.

    Desktop Gaming, please sign up for our mailing list so you can know when our game is finished.
     
  18. Reactor

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    I just started writing up some website feedback, but was shocked when I saw the Jforce comic. One minute you're talking about being serious, and the next you're showing off the kind of art four year old myspacers would chuck a fit at. What are you guys, serious or not? I mean, I get you're not exactly targeting the older generation, but that's just pathetic.

    If you honestly expect to sell 5,000 copies to myspacers (because let's be serious, no one older than 10 is going to pay you guys even the slightest bit of respect when they can play free flash games that make your efforts look like an insulting joke) you've got to be kidding.

    Time for a wakeup call, methinks.
     
  19. Reactor

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Something else- people are reacting the way they are because of your attitude at the beginning of this thread. Searching back through the archives here the attitude you've had previously is, "Help please, is this okay?" and now all of a sudden you have this, "Hey, this is how we roll." attitude. What happened? Where did this ridiculous confidence come from, that makes you sound more like a guy running up the battlements towards gunfire than a solid strategist?

    I guess you're too busy to answer the question, so... if you do read this later down the track, I heartily recommend you get your brain back from la-la land for a moment and consider what people are saying. Some of the guys on here (talking about others- not myself) really know what they're on about. Don't just take their advice as another opinion, take it almost as law. You might know a decent programmer and a smart guy with an MBA in Biblical Studies (I'm not sure what that is, even though I am a Christian myself) but studied, experienced game designers are not the people you want to ignore.

    My two cents.
     
  20. bignobody

    Indie Author

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    Anyone taking bets on how long before this project Fizzles-out? :D

    Yeah, I'm sure you do.


    In all seriousness, if you want to create games, learn how to do it yourself.
     

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