it takes an artist to know an artist

Discussion in 'Music & Sound Portfolios' started by matmilne, Oct 23, 2008.

  1. matmilne

    matmilne New Member

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    Artist : matt milne
    Site : http://www.soundclick.com/mattmilne

    i am a hollywood film composer. Since it takes an artist to know an artist i'll deispense with the resume and send you directly to http://www.soundclick.com/mattmilne
    sufficed to say it's best if a composers work speaks for itself that way you can judge from your own artistic level whether or not a particular artist is suitable. Those of you who listen will be given preferential treatment.

    a little on my specific take on the media industry and its practices:
    I am new talent not new blood, i have spent my life avoiding the fame and fortune seeking nobodys who want awards, luxury holidays, nice houses and fast cars, to that end i do not take orders from a post production hierarchy or go through agents managers or other people who are put in the way. i form a personal relationship with the project's creator instead and work directly with them and only under them, in a very close, artistic collaboration. that way only the project's interests and needs are taken into account. studios and other power hungry, money hungry meddelers and cheats whose sole purpose is to degrade a project by rushing it before it's completed by flooding it with sub standard salaried work, have to take a back seat in my department. I only work for and under the artistic genius whose project it is and i am not paid per hour, or per note, only at the end of production if the game does well, do i considder myself worthy of a fee. And if you don't think you can afford me, like all artists, I'm quite happy to work for free with another artist on a great project.

    anywho, thankyou for listening.
    matt milne
     
    #1 matmilne, Oct 23, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2008
  2. nsmadsen

    nsmadsen New Member

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    Hey Matt-

    I took some time to listen to your tracks on your site. Overall, you have some good ideas but here are a few pointers:

    1) Some of the samples are used in a way that doesn't make them sound very realistic. They come off rather MIDI-tastic and this lowers the overall impression made by the demo. I'd explore various ways to make these samples work a bit better. Some of this relates to production and other methods include more of a programming approach. Finally, it might also come down to selecting different samples that can better portray what you're going for musically.

    2) All of the music is orchestral. Now I have nothing against orchestral music at all. However, most demos strive to present a wide range of styles and abilities. You've basically only showcased one: writing for an orchestra. Not every game is going to want this kind of musical direction, so you might miss out on some potential clients. If I were you, I'd consider branching out into other forms of music, if you can compose in them well. I also felt some of the orchestral demos could use some tweaking with regards to pacing.

    2a) This is a sub point to number 2, but consider making a demo sampler where a client and click once and hear an overview of your work. This is where having variety if vital because frankly a sampler of your demos here would all be one flavor: orchestral. If you can create a variety of music that uses different styles, moods and instrumentation then a sampler is a great way to go and saves the client even more time. Here's my sampler:

    http://www.madsenstudios.com/DemoReel.mp3

    13 tracks highlighted in 4:52. I didn't put whole piece on the sampler, that would take way too long for the client to listen to. Save the full length samples for when you've captured the client's attention and interest. In other words, those come later, not at the start. Don't forget promo posts are introductions to you and your work. They're not the entire conversation.

    3) Why Soundclick? You've obviously put in a good deal of time and work on your demos, and then you use a generic, free website to promote it? If you're of the stature you claim to be, then having a personalized, custom website would serve you much better. It would make you look more professional and attract more clients.

    4) Polish your overall production. Several of your tracks would benefit from a longer trail off once the piece is ended. The audio cuts off before the reverb of the "hall" dies. This can lessen the realism and delivery of your piece. Most of your piece do have dynamic range, but I think they could have a bit more. Your loud sections don't really sound that much louder than your softer sections. Everything feels very much near the same level volume-wise. Consider really making the music dynamic and have more swells to it.

    5) Consider removing your rant in your post. Having a work flow and ideology is fine but in your promo posts you want to come off succinct and professional. Your usage of grammar, capitalization and the actual subject matter of your rant makes you appear less professional. Clients are usually busy and don't have a huge amount of time to sit down and read your thoughts on the world, game development or the music industry. They're out looking through hundreds (if not thousands) of promo posts by other composers looking for work. Clients (in my experience) are really concerned about two basic things:

    A) The quality of your work and does it match up with their needs and goals?

    B) Your rate(s) and availability. Is it within their budget and dev cycle.

    If I were you I'd completely re-edit your post into something like this:

    This reads much easier, makes you look more professional and structured and also saves the client time. I would also drop the confusion about "I only work for and under the artistic genius whose project it is and i am not paid per hour, or per note, only at the end of production if the game does well, do i consider myself worthy of a fee. And if you don't think you can afford me, like all artists, I'm quite happy to work for free with another artist on a great project." This is WAY too wordy and confusing. Simply state it like so: "Usually I charge for my services, but will consider working for free for the right project and situation."

    6) Change your attitude. I've read your posts before on another forum and you come off very arrogant and full of yourself. This isn't attractive to clients and honestly, I can name about 30 other free lance composers who are on equal or higher level than you. I do not mean this as an insult at all. I'm trying to point out there are tons of composers out there. You don't want to lose potential clients because you think you're the best thing since sliced bread. Clients want to work with someone who is easy to work with. Every job I've landed has been for three basic factors:

    * My music (or sound design) fit their needs.

    * I was able to work within their dev cycle and budget

    * My personality was laid back and easy going. This makes communication much easier for the client and you. Very few people want to work with a primadonna.

    7) Final point:
    You are? What have you worked on? If you're going to reference Hollywood, then you need to back up your claims with link(s) to the film projects you've been involved in. Simply stating it doesn't really mean much. Was it a major film or an indie film that was shot in CA with a $600 budget? These two things are very, very different and it's your job to make sure you represent yourself clearly.

    I hope that helps,

    Nathan
     
    #2 nsmadsen, Oct 23, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2008
  3. matmilne

    matmilne New Member

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    quite honestly i like artists to be energetic and alive instead of the dead academics we get these days, it makes a project so much more interesting and enjoyable if you have lively debate between artists instead of a conformist hierarchy. that way you know you're getting work by somebody like you, inother words, real teamwork.

    and attitudes shouldn't be hidden to an employer, they should be declared so they can make an honest decision, not everybody is suitable to work on a project by achievments and qualifications alone. i have often found myself at odds with people and i'd rather they didn't employ me only to discover i wasn't what they were looking for when it's too late to fire me, leaving them no choice but to use my work. i like them to decide for themselves right away whether we're gonna get along or not, that way it's not a waste of people's time when they need it most.

    only orchestral music moves an audience in ways unimagined by both the composer and director alike. And since it's what i'm talented in i'd rather focus on what i can do and be good at it than try and focus on everything and be good at none. electronic techno fusion percussion is designed to force pace the audience making them uneasy, the result being a lower quality score and a less enjoyable experience.

    people who take the time to find the right person for their project are worthy of your most dedicated output and loyalty, people who rush through everything and pick you cause you're the best on paper aren't people i want to work with.

    i like to rant it's comforting, and so do most people, not saying what you really think is to hide your intentions. it seems to me that most employment practices in the business are designed to confuse employers and make them select you based on a standard checklist, than an actual assesment of your capabilities and potential. designed to say "here you are" instead of "go and find out for yourself and trust your instincts".

    you're here for a living and that's great, but my attitude is different and i'm sorry if you can't understand it. It wouldn't be the first time an artist has had a different view to others around them now would it or does everybody have to have the same sanctioned approach?

    i'm not trying to earn a living nor am i trying to make the impression of an employable person so that i can get some standard living. I'm looking for the once in a generation artist, and i'll know them when i see them and they'll know me when they see me. it's not the attitude of the lower 99% of the business, but it's the one i've got,and it's the same attitude of the people i'm looking for. and if i sound arrogant, that's too bad. confidence, optimism, and frank openness aren't a vice, they're a requirment.
     
    #3 matmilne, Oct 24, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2008
  4. Jaap

    Jaap New Member

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    Actually Nathan gave some excellent advise in how to get your goals quicker to the targeted audience.
    It had nothing to do with personal believes or what is good or wrong about your music, but simply some advice on how you could easier find the desired result you want.
    Simple things like:

    - how to write a functional post
    - how to give your music the best exposure (website, demo reel etc)
    - how to present yourself in an honest way

    All these things are important if you targetting a potential list of people that you want that they see you.
    Nathan helped out in a good way to get you going, but it seems you feel attacked. Pitty to see. His advice is actually worth reading and without a double agenda.
     
  5. matmilne

    matmilne New Member

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    well that would seem reasonable. problem is i happen to have powerful instincts and if there's one thing i've learned in this business, it's to trust your initial instinct, no matter how absurd and irrational it may seem. Often you're wrong, but that's the risk you take so that on the rare and unusual occasion it counts, you're right.

    first rule about being an artist, always trust your instinct.

    my instinct says to ignore, so i ignore, in this case, for the reason that his advice doesn't deal with the nature of art, it's about how to make yourself look more attractive, not something i'm interested in.
     
    #5 matmilne, Oct 24, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2008
  6. Jamie W

    Original Member Indie Author

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    What some see as 'following their instincts' others can see as 'unprofessional'.

    Being more professional and presentable to potential clients, never hurt anyone. Being presentable, is just as much about how you put yourself across as a person, your character etc; as how good your site looks (and how attractive it is to use).

    Surely, we're all in the business of being more presentable, both personally and professionally. Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I am.

    Jamie. :)
     
  7. matmilne

    matmilne New Member

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    if you spend 250k on an education, how do you feel when the company employs somebody who dropped out of college, picked up a camera and makes good films with it. how do you feel as an educated academic when a talented artist gets picked over you. thus you understand why a coup detat took place. Instead only people who look good for a job are chosen, while all those who have the talents required can no longer fit their keys into the lock. The lock was changed so that the mass educated could earn a living, whilst the elitist artists were forced to stack shelves, or spend their lives in mental institutions out of frustration, or worse, give music lessons. thus the industry declines in quality as it no longer posesses the talents it requires.
    it happend in the fifties, it happened in the seventies, and most recently it happened from 98 to the present.

    to me being professional in this industy means bringing the project leader's vision to life directly by whatever means necesary, at as little cost and as quickly as you can physically manage, forgoing sleep and forsaking all other responsibilities to all extra caricular activities to get it done, and nothing more. it means to base your practices only onthose required by the project, forgetting everything you've learned and all theoretical, guild and industry rules. it means to provide not what you have been asked to by a producer, but what the head has demanded of you through the project itself.

    to provide what the project needs, that's professional, to serve your own interests by any other means is absolutely not. this is not an industry for people who dream about awards, houses, food, holidays, cars, or the recognition of others. it's not about earning a living nor is it about keeping a roof over your head. it's about doing what your artistic instincts tell you to do when the project is processed through it, cause that's what the project visionary did and it's the only way to have the two areas in artistic concurrancy.
     
  8. Jaap

    Jaap New Member

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    My personal experience is that it is a complete picture.

    Often developpers are browsing through a lot of online portfolio's quickly looking for the person they think that would be suited.
    Time is often limited and they want a quick overview of what a composer/sound designer is able to do.

    I think making a good short and strong portfolio will quicker get your attention to the devs. Also a professional exposure and attitude outside your composing work gives the devs already a first quick insight in the ways you are working and what they expect.

    You are dealing with a total picture here. This has nothing to do with how you approach your music. Ofcourse you can be professional and hard working with the right attitude, but if that doesn't show from your posts and portfolio it is for the devs hard to figure out.
     
  9. matmilne

    matmilne New Member

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    precisely, i require a collaborator to instinctively know whether i'm right for a job, by listening to my work. not somebody who figures it out from a simple resume. i prefer my collaborators to judge a book by its entire substance not its cover or the first few chapters.
    i disagree, the picture is entierly incomplete, it doesn't tell them who you are, what your potential is, what you will achieve on their project, or where they will be in ten years as a result, in order to see that future, they require talent and instincts. all it gets you is some money for a month. For you that's enough, but for me it's nothing.

    that's it, anybody who needs anything else will likely not get along with me and it would be a waste of everybody's time to even attempt it.
    Granted it might get me one project in my life, but that's what's meant by a once in a lifetime job. you just know it and you go for it.

    It ins't how you operate or what you want, that's why our approaches are different, because our outlooks are different. i want to work with great artists on projects that outlast the cycle of the industry, not earn bread on the table. i'd rather paint the sistine chapel and starve to death, than be an aristocrat and scrawl graffiti on the wall.
     
  10. Qitsune

    Qitsune New Member

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    If I'm looking to hire someone, I don't really care what their education is. I want someone who will ask me the right questions to understand what I want, who will give me feedback as to how the work is going and who is going to deliver the goods.

    What I'm not looking for: Someone who rants when I tell him what I like and dislike about his work.
     
  11. matmilne

    matmilne New Member

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    well quite, work has to be precisely tailored to fit precisely with what's there. which is why i form a personal collaboration with somebody i work with. Most composers will leave it till way too late to change anything. or will cling to particular industry practices to force that outcome. i get involved usually right at the start of a project.
     
  12. nsmadsen

    nsmadsen New Member

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    Matt-

    Faith and optimism are great to have. But that's not how you're coming off at all. I, for example, have faith in my abilities but never try to come off like I'm God's gift to music. I'm not.

    I experience "real" teamwork daily as I work with my team of producers, the other person in the audio dept I manage and the other teams that I collaborate on all kinds of tasks.

    This statement above confuses me because are you calling me a "dead academic?" You don't even know me. You do not have to be an academic to make it in this industry at all- you just have to create great audio. So what your is point here? Why do you keep thinking you're some amazing artist superior and totally different to anyone else? From what I can see- you're not. You're just choosing "interesting" promotional methods and have decent (but not amazing) demos. There are literally hundreds of other freelance composers just like you (some write better music, some don't). So what makes you think you're so special besides your insights that you claim to have?

    Never said attitudes should be hidden from an employer. I was advising you on the promo posts or your introduction to an employer. From there, I would assume you would have several discussions with that employer where both could get to know each other and make sure you two match up. I was helping you make your introductions more concise instead writing a short novel which might frighten off other clients.

    Okay, this is an idiotic statement. Good music of any genre can move an audience in all kinds of ways. You think only orchestral music can move people, but that is clearly proven false. So your demo is a one trick pony: orchestral. You also come off very elitist here and finally: NOT EVERY GAME WANTS OR NEEDS AN ORCHESTRAL SOUNDTRACK. I've attended several conferences where top notch composers are pushing for the video game industry to become more creative with it's soundtracks and not only focus on orchestral.

    Absolutely agree with this statement. If you went back and re-read my post you'll see I was actually presenting YOU with various ways to present yourself better.

    You like rants but imagine your a client that is looking for a composer to hire. You only have about two to three weeks to find someone and you're getting a ton of "applications." You have to go through and figure out who would fit your project and team. 100% of the HR or management folks I've watch do this scan through potential clients very quickly at first. They do not take time to read "essays" by applicants. They simply try to narrow down the "yes" and "no" applicants. From there, they start to take a closer look and still narrow down. If you actually think every client is going to sit down and read your thoughts on the industry (or whatever) you're fooling yourself. They're not going to. Why? Because they're too busy with their own jobs, finding someone to hire and working with their own bosses. Key point: save your lectures for the interview process, not the promo posts.

    I actually fully understand your approach. I was only asking you to reword your statement into something more concise. So why you think you may be so different from me, or that I don't understand you: I do. But there is value and saying something simply. I only advised you to change your sentence to "Usually I charge for my services, but I would be willing to work for free if the game and the situation is right." That's it.

    (Will continue this in a second post- ran out of space)
     
    #12 nsmadsen, Oct 24, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2008
  13. nsmadsen

    nsmadsen New Member

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    I'm just going to come right out and say it: You're not a once in a generation artist. From what I've heard of your music demos vs. what I've heard from other composers- I can make this comment with 100% confidence. (This includes a wide variety of composers in all mediums that have lived in the last 50 years or so).

    Harsh? Yes. If I had listened to your demos and was blown away- I'd wish you nothing but the best of luck! I'd even be more understanding of your attitude and approach. However, I've worked with and know many other composers who can write better music and produce audio at a higher level than you can. So I don't understand why you feel that you're some.... audio messiah... because frankly you're not. I'm not trying to make enemies here- but I'm also not going to sit by why this composer makes outrageous claims and statements. I do think you have some talent. I just think you have too much of an ego as well. This isn't helping you network or gain clients (at least from what I've seen it isn't).

    You'll have a much better response from clients and peers if you lowered the ego a bit and just said you were available for work... instead of trying to inflate yourself to such a high degree.

    I do this with every client and most of my peers do this as well. You're not the only audio guy that "creates a personal relationship" with their clients. Why do you feel that you are?

    Every client makes this evaluation. Clients listen to my work first and see if they like what they hear. From there, they get to know me. You keep claiming that all of us are just working on projects that will be forgotten in a short time. Also, some how only you will be working on projects that will transcend time and space. How arrogant. You don't even know what projects Jaap or others are working on. I also find it very convenient that you refuse to list your credits. You make the outrageous claims and insult others around you, but hide what you've accomplished. Why? Because I think you haven't done that much or have that much work experience. And yet you want to lecture all of us on your "insights" to the industry?

    Well I guess I'll get my spray paint can and get back to work. I wish I could be you Matt.

    (SIGH)

    To others: Those that know me somewhat know that I don't often call people out. But with Matt, I'm not holding back. This is the guy that claimed to be a "Internationally renowned composer" on another forum about 6 months ago. All of us on the forum responded with basically.... "and you are?" or "...so what have you done?"

    Matt wants to come off as a major composer. He is publicly "lectures" other, more established composers on the weak points of their compositions. He's done so in this very forum (in another post). I'm not out the make enemies but feel that Matt's attitude and behavior is completely unacceptable. Notice my first post to him was purely helpful and trying to help him promote himself in a better, more effective manner.

    If Matt responds the same way he did before- he'll lash out for a while, make claims that only he can see the wisdom of his ways and only he is a true artist then disappear for about another 6 months or so.

    Matt- I really hope you learn from the helpful advice many folks are giving you. I want you to be successful in this industry but do not want to sit by while you call all of us hacks and claim you're the only artist. You're not.

    Consider this:

    In the two posts I've seen you put up about you and your work (the one here on indiegamer and the one of gamedev.net)- you've been able to only attract negative responses.

    That's something to consider, because it doesn't seem that your approach - which you're so fond of lecturing others about- is really working.

    Might be a good time to look at other approaches that get you more positive responses instead of just negative. I don't think the faults lie in your music. Some of it is quite nice. The faults lie in your method and delivery. Making claims like you're an artist, or that you're internationally renowned. How many people on the street would know who you are? My music has been heard all over the world (due to the massive distribution of many of the projects I've worked on) and yet I don't even claim to be internationally renowned!!! And I'm completely okay with that. I don't try to pretend to be something I'm not. I don't pretend to have accomplished what I haven't. I'm just me.

    So some perspective and humility would go MILES in your situation. I've had the privilege of meeting several of the top ranked composers in this industry and do you know what ALL of them shared in common? Humility! They were just good, down to Earth, friendly people. These were people like George "The Fatman" Sanger, Aaron Marks, Will Loconto, Ed Lima, Tommy Tallarico, Kurt Larson and Jack Wall. (To name a few....)

    Learn from that.

    Best of luck to you.

    Thanks,

    Nathan
     
    #13 nsmadsen, Oct 24, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2008
  14. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Don't worry.

    I (and probably most of us) had this guy marked down as an arrogant idiot after post #1

    I shall be engaging bargepole. But I think that's what he wants us all to do, so it's win-win. :)

    It's hard to imagine someone swapping making scores for Star Wars for the life of match-3 jingle creation. LMAO
     
  15. dannthr

    dannthr New Member

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    Mat, you may have better luck just telling people straight out that you're not good--that you suck--and then you only have UP to go from that impression.

    Because really, you're just getting their hopes up for no reason--they'll only visit your soundclick with disappointment at the mediocrity (as I was, honestly).

    re: Your Demo

    You would probably benefit from watching more films and playing more video games. It's really important, as a composer offering services to an industry, that you understand that industry--that you have a passion for that industry--and that you can bring something special to a producer's/director's vision.

    One thing that you could work on is creating a more fluid pacing in your pieces. A lot of your pieces suffer from an overly quantized tempo track and a mechanically composed harmonic structure. I like your harmonics, I do, it's the only thing I do like of yours, but when whole pieces are essentially 3 minutes of block chords your music comes off as tedious, impassionate, and amateur.

    Perhaps you would also benefit from a little... instruction. Listen to the first movement of Beethoven's 9th Symphony. Listen to how he can illustrate drama. That symphony, in its finale, is very blocky at the end, but it works, because he's built a dramatic contrast throughout his compositional arc.

    Personally, I didn't go to school for music. I'm completely self-taught. I went to school for Creative Writing which could taint my criticism of your work since I have a bias toward strong character and strong storytelling which your pieces lack.

    I'm not saying you're bad, I like your harmonies and your harmonic composition, and as it is your strength, it can be a very fine base from which to build a more sophisticated compositional skillset.

    However, and most academics fall into the pits of which you seem to be at the bottom, improving ones skillset requires great humility and the ability to admit flaw when you have it--the moment you see it.

    It is the only way anyone can better themselves, and you need to better yourself more than anyone I've ever seen because you value it so much.

    There is, in this thread, an incredible opportunity for you to grow. Everyone here is interested in seeing you mature as an artist and as a human being and they have, in their own way, provided you with help. For you. For your growth. It doesn't make them feel better to tell you this stuff, it doesn't make them feel superior, they don't play those kinds of games.

    How you handle this criticism will speak VOLUMES about how you can work for someone else.

    So please, redeem this thread--it's in your hands.
     
  16. nsmadsen

    nsmadsen New Member

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    I just noticed something:

    Matt's soundclick page says he's 21 years old. Assuming this is somewhat up to date, then Matt's claim to have been writing for 14 years means he started when he was 7.

    21 -14 = 7

    I found this pretty hard to accept. I started improvising and coming up with little songs on the piano during my first grade year. It's what made my parents decide that piano lessons were a good idea. But I don't count any of this as my time as a composer. Why? Because I was completely untrained in music, just messing around by ear and only a child. None of my songs were ever published or performed for an audience that wasn't my family. I would wager many of us on this forum started messing around with music, improvising and making up little songs at a very young age. But very few of us claim that as compositional experience for the reasons I've already stated.

    Then Matt makes this claim:

    So since the age of 7 you've composed at least 321 works, several of them cited as concertos which implies a grand size in both orchestration and length. Wow, you've been busy. I could see the concertos and symphonies perhaps.... but the 300 short and feature films? Highly doubtful, especially since your IMDB page only lists 6 works:

    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2349261/

    Beethoven died at age 56 and had a musical catalog of more than 650 compositions. Are you actually suggesting that you're done almost half that amount in 14 years?

    In your first post you stated:

    and while I agree that one's work should speak for itself, it would be nice and carry much more impact and weight if you made your entire credits list available somewhere online. This way, potential clients and peers can validate your claims and you wouldn't be running into so much skepticism.

    Just my observation.

    Nathan
     
    #16 nsmadsen, Oct 24, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2008
  17. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    That's doable. Wasn't it beethoven who had a similarly ridiculous CV ?

    And this guy's obviously *that* good, at least in his own mind. :)
     
  18. chillypacman

    chillypacman Guest

    That's what you say, but in the end it'll turn out this dude is just like Beethoven, and then you'll regret the fact you mocked him like this.



    :p
     
  19. Sean Beeson

    Original Member

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    My suggestion

    Matt,

    Not that you need to hear any other advice, (as it seems that you have gotten a lot of great advice above) I would seriously suggest that you try to get this entire post removed or at least try to alter some of the opinions of yourself that have been formed within this thread.

    Forum threads stick around for years, you don't want what you have said in this thread haunting you for eternity :)

    Others' opinions of you are important. There are a few composers posting in this thread that are with companies that could potentially hire you in the future, I would suggest not going out of your way to stir the pot :)

    As for the whole academic elitism vs. commercial uneducated composer, I wouldn't open that can of worms :)

    I hear a lot of bad composers with degrees in composition or education/performance/BA/MBA/DMA, and likewise, I have a few friends that may not be able to name the notes in the octatonic scales or tell me who Slominsky was, but they sure as hell can write hehe

    You are passionate about music and about artistic collaboration. Focus on that point. That alone can be very appealing to clients.
     
  20. andrew

    andrew New Member

    Joined:
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    the tracks aren't bad, although i'm sure you also know that you could orchestrate a C major chord with EWQLSO Platinum and it'll sound amazing just because of the 200GB sample libraries

    i actually think that's a noble goal (i'm assuming you have other ways to support yourself financially).... but honestly you may be on the wrong forum

    - andrew
     

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