*Indie Author* ?

Discussion in 'Indie Related Chat' started by Desktop Gaming, Sep 12, 2007.

  1. DrWilloughby

    Indie Author

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    They are private so that public traffic can't see them -- security/piracy and other touchy topics sometimes get covered in there.
     
  2. tentons

    Indie Author

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    So why not just award those folks deemed helpful as MVP's or something? At least there is a subjective basis for the badge in that case.

    Without that subjective decision, it's ego masturbation: you get one just for having sold a game which has no bearing on the quality of your input at this forum, which, I believe, is the issue this is meant to address? It also leaves out people who are still building games but have a lot of good things to contribute and freely give their time and knowledge. This is a bit of a slap in the face for them, like saying, "Thanks for making this a better place for indie devs, but since you aren't one of us by our silly criteria, you get no recognition for that. But feel free to keep giving your time and knowledge so the forum is better. Maybe one day you can drive a Dodge Stratus with the rest of us if you finish that game."

    I'm fulltime for 2 years now, and I've released 3 games as an indie, but that doesn't mean anything I say should receive more respect than anything a first poster says. There's no causal relationship between having a released game and being useful to the forums.

    On the other hand, if I was constantly adding great content to the forums (which I'm not, sorry), then granting some acknowledgment of thanks for that would seem not only polite of the mods but genuinely useful for other posters because they would know that the person thus tagged has a reputation for professionalism and generosity toward forum users.

    My $.02 on the topic.
     
  3. Desktop Gaming

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Wow.

    Is there anything else you can come up with that could possibly make the rest of us feel any more worthless??
     
  4. Chris Evans

    Moderator Original Member

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    What he said.

    The forum has lost a bit of focus over the last year or so. Lately it's starting to feel little too much like a general game developer forum such as Gamedev.net. The purpose of Indiegamer is to promote and foster Independent game development. And occasionally discuss some periphery issues/topics that an Indie author faces (ie. Indie Life forum). Technical and game design discussions are fine but hopefully when it's in the scope of Indie game development. Maybe part of the problem is that we have too many subforums.

    But I'm in favor of the Indie Author tag/badge because it helps keep the focus of these forums at the forefront. These forums are meant for people who actually plan to finish and release a game independently. The tag is a nice little incentive for those who are actively working on their game and the tag is nice reward for those who have already finished and released their game. It's a little constant reminder of what we should be striving for on this forum.

    Personally, I hope this forum is mostly composed of "Do'ers" and not just "Dreamers". People who are actively trying to pursue the dream of Independent game development instead of just talking about it. I really don't see the tag/badge as elitist, I think the tag is a great indication that particular member is a "Do'er" and not someone who's just spinning their wheels in the mud.

    It doesn't mean people who don't have the tag have worthless opinions or input. It just means the people who do have the tag have completed the first stage of the Indie journey. If it gives their posts a little more weight so be it.

    That said, when you release a game you don't attain instant wisdom. You basically learn what works and doesn't work for your situation. Sometimes that info can be useful for others, sometimes it isn't. But it's a contribution to the pot of shared experience, which adds more value to the community. If we can encourage more people to get to this point then all the better.
     
  5. tentons

    Indie Author

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    That's a nice sentiment, and I like it. Why not have a badge for that? That kind of ego masturbation is positive.

    But it's not related to the fact that the forums are (yet again? don't we hear this every now and then?) degenerating into noob noise. If you want to reward people who contribute a lot to the forums, do it in a way that is contextual to their contributions to the forums, not simply because they have released a game.
     
  6. Nikster

    Original Member

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    *Indie Author* is basically 17bit software, and I guess came about due to the forums going down the pan thread, and tbh, Indie Author is a bit vague considering the different frequents that are also indie but specialize in different fields, perhaps *Indie Game Author aka 17bit software* or something ;)

    All that said, I've seen posts from people who now have the stamp which gave bad advice, bad as in don't wipe your arse after a dump, rather than don't shake it more than once.

    While personally I don't care about the new class, I'm more worried as in some cases it can be a smokescreen to so called noobs and just might make things worse, I guess time will tell.

    Anyway, you all can't tell your arse from your elbows, and I only trust cas, mainly because he's a lunatic and when you mention java, he turns into peter simon on crack ;) all j/k of course.

    tbh, some kind of kudos points per section would be good, I guess something like gamedev's, where the original poster can hand out to each reply whether it was helpful or not, and of course, a FAQ...

    anyway, I ain't posted much for ages, so please forgive me.
     
  7. Dan MacDonald

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    That's a great idea, there are some people who have been around for ages and do helpful things like providing feedback on the new games posted, or helping steer new members to exsisting answer threads etc. They may never release a game because they spend all their time on the forums... ;) .. but I'm happy to reward them with a badge of some sort for their efforts.

    One thing at a time though :)
     
  8. sillytuna

    Indie Author

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    Yay, hello Nik. Back again I see :)

    I honestly don't think the badge makes much difference - wouldn't mind seeing the forum, not so bothered about the badge (plus my original indie days were 10 years ago, unlike many here).

    Let people judge posts for themselves. I'd hope the sensible posts (and posters) will stand out. It's certainly not something to get wound up about.

    Move on people. There's nothing to see here.
     
  9. electronicStar

    Original Member

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    Wow!
    Just wow.

    I think it's better not to continue that conversation because I can see it becoming real sh*tty real fast with political overtones.
    Anyway I like how some good friends of friends just "naturally" get into the elite without achieving anything. Just like in real life actually hahahaha.

    And I'd be curious to know now if frozax going to be deemed worthy or not.Funny how the *indie author* status needs to be reevaluated when non-members of the elite start asking for it....

    As for me I'll probably become less than a lurker now because I don't want any "respected member" taking advantage of his situation relative to mine if/when I finish my game and decide to announce it on this forum before trying to secure deals with publishers. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
     
  10. cliffski

    Moderator Original Member

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    Most people who are selling finished games have the links in their sigs. All this new group name text does is simplify the process of clicking and link and seeing who someone is if you are new here.
    It's not like everyone in that forum group got given free laptops or a pile of cash, and everyone else didn't.
    The mods just changed the text for a certain user group. Theres no value judgement involved. This is inevitable when the forum hits a certain size and people tend not to know peoples backgrounds so much.
    It's not a big deal.
     
  11. bignobody

    Indie Author

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    Well, I know mine makes me feel like a big man. ;)
     
  12. Rainer Deyke

    Indie Author

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    I am truly horrified by this idea. As I see it, the main danger to this forum isn't the influx of noobs - it's that this forum could turn into a clique where the participants are too busy fighting for social ranking to get anything done.

    Do we want this forum to be an open resource or a closed social club?

    In the former case, if there is a badge system at all, it should be completely objective and mandatory. If people care about who has released a game and who hasn't, they can look at the badge. If they don't, they can ignore the badge. If the badge merely represents the opinion of some moderator or approval committee, it is completely worthless. Same if the absence of a badge merely represents a refusal to participate in the badge system.

    In the latter case, just close the forum completely to newcomers. Maybe allow new people in if they send a request to a moderator or if an existing member invites them.
     
  13. Dan MacDonald

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Funny, I'm reading an interview with bill roper about hellgate london and he had this response to a question about the subscription model in Hellgate london.


    Interviewer: So once you decided to go with tiers, there's sort of--and I'm probably gonna get the number wrong--it seems that there's two parts to the second tier which I guess you're calling Elite--

    BillRoper:You know, just to interrupt--we're not really calling it Elite. [Laughs.] That was kind of a dev name that just--when we talked to [Games For Windows magazine], we threw it out there. We were throwing out joking names for stuff and I think unfortunately, that ended up having a really bad connotation with people. They said, "Oh, so either I'm Elite or I'm nothing," and it really isn't that way. I think we were trying to come up with something that just kind of sounded gamer-y and cool. It really just breaks down to your standard out-of-the-box experience and then whether you're a subscriber or not.

    ----

    It seems to me "elite" is a loaded term that when bantered about, causes a lot of people to get their feathers all ruffled. When in reality there's really no foul play intended...
     
  14. Andy

    Original Member

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    I liked this combination: bignobody = *Indie Author* :D

    Sorry bud, nothing personal against you. OK?
     
  15. soniCron

    Indie Author

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    This is causing a bit of a stir right now, but I think it's for the best. That is, of course, provided the-powers-that-be show responsibility and integrity with its dispense. If they don't, then it's possible we'll see an upheaval or two, potentially harmful to the forum.

    At the moment, I'm a bit disillusioned with it. It kind of hurts my feelings that my badge has been revoked despite my (unadvertised) experience. Of course, I'm not surprised: I've upset, offended, and disrupted enough senior members to warrant serious opposition.

    But it brings up an interesting philosophical observation: That of a deterministic quantifier for eligibility versus the exceptional inapplicability. Who's wrong: the creator or the created? Does fault with one fault both?

    Regardless, I wish it the best, because I think it's an important distinction a lot of people need, whether they know it or not. I have already found it invaluable at making swift judgments on posters I don't recognize. Of course, I always apply my own weighted scale, but I think it helps properly calibrate it. At least to a degree.

    Ultimately, I think the most important thing these badges will achieve are a thrust toward a clear and defined position on this forum's own purpose--questioning the meaning of its life, if you will--through discussion, disruption, and a solidifying of personality.

    Enough of the pacifistic, unfocused forums we've grown to love. Indiegamer has made a bold choice and I can only hope it charges toward self-identity and ultimate purpose. Push hard, push strong, and push fast, because if you don't, you'll sink into the ordinary.
     
  16. svero

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Boy... You people are all CRAZY! The private forum is bar none the most boring forum on this site. So don't get all excited!!

    The little tag helps Identify people who've published a game vs. those who haven't. It's useful for people reading responses.

    Sigs are ok but not everyone wants to put a sig for various reasons. For instance they may not want their posts to directly represent the "official" policy of the indie company or portal they work for etc... As well I don't necessarily want to go trolling through some guys website with 50 games on it from reflexive arcade to determine if 3 of them were actually by him etc...

    I don't know what these elitism fears are all about. Either you've published a game or you haven't. As well this was brought on by people complaining about the quality of posts on the forum as a possible way to help things. I mean.. I guess it's true what they say. You can please some of the people some of the time. I didn't realize it would be a big can of worms. You people need to RELAX.

    I think we now need a new tag which is a little zen symbol for people that don't go insane every thread... maybe when you click it it could play birds tweeting and a stream or something...
     
  17. Firespirit

    Firespirit New Member

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    Good Idea

    I think it's a good idea.

    As someone who's not shipped a game, and knows how hard it is to stay motivated and focused, I need all the incentives I can get.

    A small tag/icon, and being a member of a more or less exclusive group of peers is just that. It's a small medal for releasing.
     
  18. JoshuaSmyth

    Original Member

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    I think its a good idea, for me it doesn't represent elitism, but rather "has achieved to at least a minimum standard"

    Whats wrong with a little certificate of competance?
     
  19. Game Producer

    Moderator Original Member

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    I wonder if you replied to this part in svero's post: :rolleyes:

    Oh, and I'd like one. White, please. :D
     
  20. tentons

    Indie Author

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    If the badge's purpose is to only show whether or not you have released a game, I agree.

    If the badge's purpose is to inform others of who has been exceptionally helpful and professional on the forums, I disagree, because releasing a game does not equate to your contributions to the forums being any less noisy than the next guy's (or gal's). Only human judgment can decide that. And the original purpose of the badge was to help eliminate forum noise. Somehow. I don't see it as a solution to that problem, but I like the idea of recognizing people who really go the extra mile. It won't be hard to decide who those few people are because it's obvious if you spend any time here.

    I think there should be at least two badges in that case: one for people who've released games, and one for helpful folks that put in a lot of time here and are not just noise and are not cantankerous. If it leads to competition for the rare MVP badge, then the only way you can "win" is by being consistently helpful, professional, and a source of reliable information. How is that horrifying?
     

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