income

Discussion in 'Indie Business' started by Slayerizer, Dec 21, 2004.

  1. Slayerizer

    Original Member

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    From what I've seen so far, in the last posts, most games are not selling very well (well, enough to live from it). I was wondering if most developers declare their game's income to the government.

    Just wondering! :eek:
     
  2. princec

    Indie Author

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    I do, because I run Puppygames as a limited company (Shaven Puppy Ltd). I don't pay any taxes because so far I have yet to actually stop losing money.

    Cas :)
     
  3. svero

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Taxes? What are you kidding? The republicans are in office! I just got 10k in corporate welfare to finance my move to an offshore tax free island in the carribean. Yes... life is pretty sweet.

    (actually im not even american.. just a little gag eh :))
     
  4. Siebharinn

    Original Member

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    "Gag" is a pretty accurate description of the noise my throat is making right now.

    - Pulls on the asbestos underwear. Darn, those itch. -

    I don't understand why so many indies seem to want to bash Republicans. The Republican (conservative) ideology is more friendly to business, including small business.
     
  5. andyb

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    Now there's a man who spits into the wind just for the hell of it ;)

    (I mean that as a compliment, BTW)
     
  6. princec

    Indie Author

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    There's really no such thing as friendly to business or unfriendly... it all amounts to much the same whoever's in power.

    Cas :)
     
  7. DavidRM

    Indie Author

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    I've reported every dollar earned since the beginning. It's easier, really.

    -David
     
  8. FlySim

    Indie Author

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    In the US, I think its much safer to report everthing and be aggressive on the deductions. Hiding income can get you sent to prison...
     
  9. gmcbay

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    Most of the Republicans currently in power in the US (primarily, The Bush Administration) aren't fiscally conservative. With the USA almost 8 trillion dollars in debt (and growing) this point isn't even open for debate.
     
  10. GBGames

    Indie Author

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    This thread might need to be stopped before it gets into an idealogical debate about which party is better or how much America sucks or something. B-)
     
  11. cliffski

    Moderator Original Member

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    I declare it all, but pay very little tax. I take money as dividends as a shareholder rather than a salary. You can earn £10k capital gains(shares) without tax, and Im usually just under that, especially after PC related expenses.
    So my tax bill is pretty much zero.
    Plus Im VAT registered so i claim the VAT back. hurrah!
     
  12. EpicBoy

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    Could we check the politics at the door, please? I think we all got our fill during the election.
     
  13. Siebharinn

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    I really don't want to debate whose politics are better, because nobody's mind is going to be changed.

    What I'm really curious about is this: there are certain ideological differences between conservatives and liberals. Neither is necesarily wrong, or better than the other. How do those ideologies match up with the indie mindset?

    For instance, I have tended to view conservatives as more independent and self-reliant, while liberals tend to be more group oriented. Independent types might setup their own publishing portal and make it work (or not) on their own, liberals would tend to form a cooperative and make it work (or not) as a group.

    Again, neither way is necessarily bad. You tend to pick a political party based on your tendencies. If you are more of an individualist, you're probably not going to go Democrat, because Democrats as a (grossly generalized) rule tend to be more collective oriented. Conservative ideology tends to favor business and capitalism, while liberal ideology tends to favor government programs and assistance.

    Those are my views, and others undoubtedly have different views. Does that make sense, without stepping on anyone's toes?

    So I'm curious about indies. From what I read, many seem to lean more to the left as far as what they say. But the successful ones know that they have to do it on their own, not as a group. The successful indies are the ones who treat their business as a real business, which would make me suspect they are more conservative. But it doesn't seem to work out that way.

    What I would like to see, and I don't know how to ask for it without causing a big pooh-storm, is the correlation (or lack thereof) between specific ideologies and success (or lack thereof) as an indie.
     
  14. Dan MacDonald

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    I wonder if SteveP is a closet conservitive?
     
  15. GBGames

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    Agreed. Hopefully we can keep this discussion at a decent civil level.

    The generalization of the liberal ideology isn't very precise and is fairly derogatory, and the comparison isn't a comparison. I know it wasn't meant that way, and I understand what you're saying. I think conservatives and liberals alike wouldn't mind taking advantage of government programs such as grants for research. I don't want to make any statements about what I think it means to be liberal or conservative.

    Like I said, being part of a group doesn't make you more liberal. The GOP is a very succesful group. B-)

    But to be successful, you do have to do things for yourself. No one else can do anything for you. That's what separates the elite from the mediocre. You want your life to change? Just do it. Most people are afraid to do anything that someone else didn't already do.

    If Steve Pavlina failed in his attempts to run his own shareware business, we wouldn't ever speak of him. He blazed a trail, and that's why people try to learn from him.

    So I think that being successful means action. Granted, you can do things that cause you to fail, but by not doing anything, you've already failed. Success comes to those who take action, and again, action is a thing only you can do. No one makes you try to lose weight. No one makes you try to earn 2x or 3x your current income. You do.

    And that all said, I believe it is possible to be successful and liberal, just as I believe it is possible to be a failure and conservative.
     
  16. tentons

    Indie Author

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    I wouldn't think those labels correlate to success at any level anyway. They're just labels and subjective ones at that.

    You are very right about success, though: only you can do it. If I wasn't pushing myself to finish my first game, even though I'm excited about the next version of the engine, the new ideas for the next game, all the other reasons to delay, I would never finish. It's hard work to force yourself to finish (for me, at least).

    So success is, by definition, taking action.
     
  17. Chaster

    Original Member

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    Getting back on topic

    I declare all my income to the government. I've done so for the past 4 years (since I started Xenopi). In the beginning, I really didn't need to as I was losing tons of money compared to the amount I was bringing in, but I did so anyway. IMHO, keeping everything in the books on the "straight and narrow" is just "the right thing to do".
     
  18. BlueSky

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    Makes sense....

    Reporting your income while you're small time(i.e. lots of expenses, not much income) can actually save you a ton of money. How? If you have an LLC and a daytime job, you can deduct your business losses from your total income. Its a great way to lower your tax bill.
     
  19. ManuelFLara

    Indie Author

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    As an indie that's just starting (game 99% finished, just polishing, doing website work, etc) I think about this all the time (whether declare your income or not). It's great the deduction thing, specially now that I have tons of expenses but very few (actually nothing) income, but here in Spain company owners have to fees beginning at $200/month (that'd be my fee), so does declaring everything make sense to me, when I don't know if I even earn *any* money (i.e., more than $200)?
     
  20. tewe76

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    Pues sí... :)

    You're right. I'm legal. I'm a good guy. I believe in State. I believe in law and order. But it's not logical to pay taxes if you don't have benefits. For sure, this law, in Spain, should change. If not, people like us have only two options:
    1-don't start up the business
    2-go illegal at least until you get enough benefits to pay taxes
    Both bad options to develop this country's economy :(
     

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