I detect a shit/fan interface...[Apple requires apps be written in C ]

Discussion in 'Indie Business' started by princec, Apr 8, 2010.

  1. hippocoder

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    Wrong I'm sorry to say. This will be true of 4.0 Apps though. Currently, the game gets rated zero most times due to a bad ui design. This is getting fixed for 4.0. See: http://www.macrumors.com/2010/04/10/apple-removes-rate-on-delete-for-apps-in-iphone-4/

    In particular: if a user never deleted the app, it would never get rated. And if you deleted it without rating it, it would get no rating. In short, what you have said is entirely incorrect.

    But you go on with this incorrect trend as we'll quote:

    Thank god. The thousands of shitty kongregate apps won't hit iPhone. I'll have some more faith in the iPhone as a consumer, and expect higher quality, and most of all UNIQUE apps.

    Thats right, its a good thing.

    I'm not quite understanding your reasoning. Virtually every tool? You are making no sense at all I'm afraid.

    You can get a full iPhone game running using the apple frameworks and Opengl ES in less than 100 lines of code, and thats a playable game.

    You still are able to use middleware. The internet is packed with great middleware both free and paid for. Bass sound is one of them, just to throw something up in the air for you. Thats not restricted or affected.

    Could I ask you to be mature for a moment, insulting me and being random isn't going to help you. Perhaps you should get back to your game instead of getting enraged over what till now was a sensible discussion without hate or insults.

    To clarify, I am not an Apple fanboy. I am one of the few people online right now positive enough to see these clouds have silver linings. Perhaps you would be a happier individual if you did the same.
     
  2. wazoo

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    begin-troll

    Hey, I seem to recall the same sentiment during the launch of Windows Vista. Despite that, nobody I knew ditched it for a Mac.

    end-troll
     
  3. Musenik

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  4. potan

    potan New Member

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    heuhuehe.... this made my day :D

    i wonder if at this very moment Apple having a party and taking pleasure watching all this heated discussion everywhere, what a sadist :p

    i'll just wait and see how it turns out (though i do hope Unity folks find a way out of this, for now i can't think of anything else to use beside that engine)
     
  5. Reactor

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    While you were learning c and c++, I was doing what most artists do- learning the tools of our trade. How's that for an excuse?

    Try Shiva. Here's a quote from one of the devs...

     
  6. hippocoder

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  7. Escapee

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  8. Applewood

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    I agree. But it does mean that people should stop complaining when it doesn't. If you want a multi platform source base, use the right tool for the job is all I'm saying.
     
  9. Reactor

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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  10. electronicStar

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    The shit/fan interface actually occurs mostly on the internet, the good thing is that it lets you see who in a forum is a Apple fanboy, and who is a rabid anti apple.
     
  11. chillypacman

    chillypacman Guest

    Right now I can use Unity to make an iPhone app, come OS 4.0 I won't be able to use Unity to make an iPhone app but will have a rating system. Sooo, how about let me keep my Unity and my score system? Do I have to choose one or the other? Yeah, typical Apple bullshit.

    Besides, a top selling list is equivalent to a score system ;)

    There are some great Kongregate games but it's besides the point, as always you are failing to respond to my very valid point, that if you're worried your precious iPhone will suffer because of Flash since it will be on a cheaper phone and run better on it then you should be even more worried if it's on cheaper phones with no answer on the iPhone. But wait, you're trying to avoid that contradiction by downplaying the fact Apple doesn't want to give users and developers a choice.

    So let me reiterate because I know you're struggling to comprehend how stupid youare even as you are made to see it in plain site, you started by saying that it's good Flash is kept off the iPhone because if Adobe makes Flash run better on a cheaper phone it will make the iPhone look inferior. When I correctly pointed out what you say is absolute bullshit because it would be an even worse comparison for your precious iPhone to not even have any form of Flash on it when a cheaper phone does you downplayed Flash entirely, pretending its not even necessary.

    My dear, that's fanboy 101, you simply don't mind that Apple is sticking it up your ass and the more I prove you're having it taken up your ass the more you're enjoying it. It's masochistic really.


    ALso ROFLMAO at your 'unique' comment, you truly are stupid. All Apple has done is inconvenienced developers, it can't prevent a developer from making a multiplatform game, all it can do is prevent them from using simple straight forward tools to do so. What this will mean is more shitty apps on the iPhone, developers have a limited time and if they want to make a multiplatform game they damn well will make a multiplatform game, and if Apple has so chosen to make it harder to work on its precious platform then its Apples loss.

    Unless Apple comes out and decrees they own the IP to everything which goes on the app store (a move I'm sure you will support if it ever happened, being an idiot fanboy and all) then they're not going to stop multiplatform games, only lower the quality thereof. This isn't an assumption, this is fact, look at it historically, the Atari Jaguar vs. the Playstation 1 is a good example of this where the poorly implemented jaguar API and hardware was a huge hindrance and hurt it a lot while the Playstation 1 succeeded and most multiplatform games were clealry superior on the ps1. This isn't an exact 1:1 metaphor but it sells the point, inconveniencing developers simply disadvantages your platform, that's just a simple reality which you are too self-deluded to understand.

    I can get an even better game running on the iPhone using Unity with the same effort.

    The TOS says all undocumented APIs, which if taken as it means would be no API at all which Apple doesn't give you.


    But you're an idiot, what am I supposed to say? I'm sorry, I'm not going to keep quiet about the elephant in the room, I normally can tolerate Apple fanboys explaining in detail how they can take it up the ass, but when they tell me to do the same I'm going to start making them feel uncomfortable about their cult like devotion and sheer irrationality. It's like religion, youc an worship steve jobs all you want, just don't you ever fucking dare tell me he's anything besides an annoying salesmen and a cunning businessmen and all his company policies are designed to maximize his profits and hurt his competitors, customers be damned. Stop trying to preach to me with your bullshit, all you'll receive is relentless logic from my end.

    Wrong, you are.


    You know this goes back to the 90's when Apple tried pulling this sort of stunt on developers and in the process almost killed itself. Now it hopes with legions of idiots such as yourself blindly worshiping the word of the holy Steve Jobs it can get past that and create a locked off system which developers will still make apps for. Without a doubt Apples draconian policies which destroyed its third party support back in the 90s will hurt developers and make them think twice before developing on the platform, the only question is how much is Apple going to suffer?

    With any luck you'll be here this time next year praising Steve Jobs for his forward sitedness by backtracking on this stupid new policy Apple has invented.

    Because when it comes down to it all your arguments fail, practically speaking there is no real relation between quality and multiplatform (look at the games industry for a good example) and if there was then Apple should go ahead and ban people who don't have a CS degree, because in theory people without a CS degree can't make good apps either.

    And if aPple really cared about quality how about they stop accepting junk into the appstore? Yep, why don't they write up a minimal set of benchmarks an app submitted for consideration should meet in regards to interface and such, they already do it for memory usage and the like. Oh that's right, because this isn't about your benefit even if you have convinced yourself it is (becaus eSteve Jobs said so, it must be true!), it's because apple HATES the idea of having Adobe compete with it, who knows? It just might be a bit too successful.

    Now go crawl back into that hole you came out of.
     
    #91 chillypacman, Apr 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2010
  12. zoombapup

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    chilly: can you tone it down a bit? I dont think anything hippo posted warrants the personal attacks.

    Lets keep it civil please.
     
  13. zoombapup

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  14. cliffski

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    wowzers.

    I wish people got this upset about issues that actualyl matter slightly.
    I swear that if programmers had existed two hundred years ago, they'd be too busy arguing about the use of curly brackets to abolish slavery.
     
  15. Bmc

    Bmc New Member

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    Or whether to put the * by the type, the identifier or in the middle of the two
     
  16. hippocoder

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    Since when has abuse been allowed on these forums? Please put a stop to it or I for one won't be sharing my metrics and sales info here nor my tips on gaining more sales. I have no interest helping people like that.

    On a brighter note, internally we have a mail from noname which addresses name that says we'll be able to use static compiled libs just fine, providing your main entry points are all in objective C or C (read: nothing changes for us if we compile our main program in xcode).

    The barrier to entry is currently only virtual machines or CPU hogs taking up 100% cpu time like flash did. All the flash CS5 apps took up 100% CPU time, and they did have a few months in the Appstore as a feasibility study. This isn't a knee-jerk reaction, but a deliberate measure. The bad part is the blanket solution isn't helping keeping development in the year 2010!

    He says clearly: by taking 100% CPU time you prevent the device from reliable touches, accelerometer, multitasking polling etc, and significantly drain battery life.

    Unity3D by contrast is far better behaved. I can only hope that Apple see sense and come to an agreement with them as even EA uses Unity3D to publish their games on Appstore. See this spreadsheet for an ongoing compiled list of apps which aren't "xcode native":

    https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ApLAS6djiVwydGhJMmh1YjYwb0QzUDl6dEVzV1hwVnc&hl=en
     
  17. Adrian Lopez

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    Not according to the new terms. If all Apple wants is to keep out apps that abuse system resources they can write their terms to address that specific problem rather than prohibit anything that isn't written in C, C++ or Objective-C.
     
    #97 Adrian Lopez, Apr 12, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2010
  18. hippocoder

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    I'm not agreeing with Apple's methods, only seeing how we can leverage it to our advantage - silver lining, so to speak.

    My personality is simple: I want victory and I will take the path of least resistance to it in order to save time. Butting heads against Apple isn't going to work and it will slow me down.

    As I said their new terms are totally blanket-statement, but thats to protect them vs any legal action, it does not mean they will magically reject your application if it did use lua. It just means they have more power to reject it.

    We are developers, we will find a way, and I'm sure many will continue to try it on for size and blog about it :p
     
  19. HairyTroll

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    I didn't realize that including Lua scripting in a game equated to laziness. And yes, the new SDK terms do outlaw all use of these kinds of scripting languages within C/C++/Obj-C.
     
  20. PoV

    PoV
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