my two cents Hello board, I have some sort of contribution to the mud throwing artist vs progammer, as i consider myself crossover gamedesigner-projectmanager-techie. By education im computer science and business administration, with a university course in game design. I have not a track record as such (apart from mods) and thus have to finance myself to figure out a away to make a game with no backing. I see artefacts in this discussion: - belief in own trade - denial of the business side to gaming. - lack of focus on percieved values Programmers see themselves as able todo all and that they are most important, game designers and managers say theyare most and so on. WHat should be said is bringing communities of practies together increases the innovativeness of a team, so dont taunt other end but there a time and place where all trades shine. Creative chaos comes the fluctation brought into the team by new worlds views which leade each indidual member to reconstruct his own beliefs according to the new information gained (hopefully). Scepticism is ok, but from what standpoint its open up is the key. If its artists vs programmers, its a lame pre-calculated war which contributes nothing. But for a reason is good, especially when in pre-production you need to do stuff for a reason and not just because its fun because the path ahead is still not funny clearified (cerny method) or you get nowhere. A good argument can bend attitudes and knit a team together. Businesss is what its about, and its like first thing to make clear: if you dont get more money out of production (and fun) than you could get by putting your money in the bank - dont do it !!! This makes focus completely different than the usual mod upstart which take focus in what production team knows and likes. Games are designed to buyers, people that are NOT programmers and NOT artists etc etc. What do they want? thats the key together with cost-effective handling during the preproduction of the game. I have talked to several aritsts and programmers by now and rarly have i seen anyone cost - effective enough to work with. Usually they overrate themselves and have huge asking price and or mediocre quality for no other reason than mental gold digging. They basicly dont get that they are part of a busineess and even if it was a profit sharing scheme they wouldnt get 'thier share' out of sales, but out of commission and after costs of project are paid. There is a huge reality check needed if you ask me or you can say that i'm too cheap to pay people what they dream about and try to find peopel that share my vision rather than love for money. This leads to my mantra, focus on percieved values. If you have to put your own money into making a game, you gotta get value for money. This goes as for cost of graphics and especially on features designed. Programmers are the worst of worst todo something for technically coolness reasons. But you might get same game impact as a superÃ¼bertech by meary adding another integer to an object and make some simple rules for it. example the concept of fuel in cars are easily added and would give huge depth to eg. a strategy game. This would be percieved as 'cool feature' by a user, but programmer often neglect this because 'its a 5 min job'. So when asking if you should have another feature, object, etc. ask yourself how its percieved by user. What does it add to game and by this you know if price is right in time and money. to end this sidetrack and answer the actual topic: how much do you pay for graphics: i'd never pay three digit for a 3d graphic object. I pay as little as possible and order many objects as needed in one go to drop price. best regards brian ps. dont take above too seriously, its just a wake up saterday braindump.