How many sales in france?

Discussion in 'Indie Business' started by zoombapup, May 14, 2009.

  1. zoombapup

    Moderator Original Member

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    Hey all.

    I guess many of you wont have heard, but french politicians are trying to pass a law banning user downloading of copyright material at the ISP level.

    My question is: How many sales do you get from france as a percentage of total?

    I'm asking because it would be interesting to see if the law (if it passes) has any impact on sales.

    This is the first country I know of to actually tackle the piracy problem in law and might make a good test case for the future of anti piracy legislation.
     
  2. coconut76

    Original Member

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    Hello,

    I'm french and the law is not like you say.
    This law is essentially for people who downloads a lot of films or music.
    And there will be not impact on indie game piracy.
    The provider "should" stop the internet access of these people after 2 notifications by e-mail.
    For me, this law will have no impact for us.

    Best.
     
  3. dylanite

    dylanite New Member

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    Its useless, pirates just have to encrypt the traffic, and continue downloading.
     
  4. Executrix

    Executrix New Member

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    It's not useless.

    Domains, IPs, and file sharing protocols can be black listed at the ISP level (guess non-pirates will have to use http to download their Ubuntu ISOs from now on, eh? ;) ). If all pirates have to encrypt all of their protocols just to download then this is a victory for content producers for sure as it makes it dramatically less easy to pirate.

    Net neutrality is important, and I hate filters.
     
  5. dylanite

    dylanite New Member

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    It makes it less easy, you are right. It for sure does not make it impossible alltogether, but maybe its an obstacle for the less tech savvy pirates.

    Still, i dont think its correct to block a certain protocol (torrent in this case) alltogether. Yes 99% shared on Torrent is illegal, but it CAN be used for legal things aswell. I admit that this is not often the case though, but the protocol in itself is not illegal at all.
     
  6. Acord

    Acord New Member

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    Well, anything that makes theft more difficult is a good thing. A lot of people only steal when there's an easy opportunity to do so. If it's more difficult, a lot of people will simply go off and do something else. I think a lot of these measures will prevent a good deal of casual piracy, but there's no way it'll be stopped completely short of turning of teh interwebs.
     
  7. dylanite

    dylanite New Member

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    I agree with everything except the terms stealing and theft. Its not actually stealing, its infringing immaterial rights. Doesnt make it any better though, but stealing is a whole different story.
     
  8. electronicStar

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    IMO pirates will find a way to bypass the protective measures, they always find a way.
     
  9. Executrix

    Executrix New Member

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    Thief walks into my store and grabs a copy of my game off the shelf and walks out without paying.

    Pirate downloads a warzed copy of my game from a torrent site.

    Both people suck.
     
  10. Bad Sector

    Original Member

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    Yeah but using a widely known word for something that has a different meaning than what most people know makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about. I've explained it in detail in some previous post here. Our image is the most important asset we have to convince people to take us seriously. Education has the best effect from all "anti-piracy" measures. To educate someone you first need to have him respect you and you clearly don't want him think you don't know what you're talking about.

    Both people (and actions) might suck but they're not the same.
     
  11. Acord

    Acord New Member

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    There's actually a ranking system for morals that goes from 0 - 5.

    Most people rate between 1 and 3 - and this is among adults, not children, for whom the scale was developed. I think this says some pretty sad things about grown-ups in general.

    http://www.character-education.info/Articles/stages_of_moral_development.htm

    When people think that they are being watched, they tend to behave better and make more responsible decisions. In other words, they are worried what other people might think, or they are worried about negative consequences.

    When it comes to theft, the harder that something is to steal, the less likely that it will be stolen. The reason for this is simple: If something makes a lot of noise or takes a long time to steal, then there is a higher chance of getting caught and punished/castigated. These are worries that pervade the thinking of most people in stages 1 - 3.

    Why do you have locks on your doors but windows made of easily broken glass? Why bother locking your car when 1/3rd of the surface area can be easily compromised with a rock? Why bother with alarm systems? Because it delays theft.

    So essentially the idea is that

    1: If people think they are POSSIBLY being watched, they are more likely to behave.
    2: If it becomes fairly difficult to circumvent being watched or detected, most people will not bother. The more difficult it is, the more likely that they will go elsewhere.

    I think I've already made lengthy entries on why data can not be legally treated as property and needs to be further defined in law, but this is a very interesting implementation based on how people treat the physical property of others.

    Will the same rules apply?

    If people feel that data counts as property, then yes. Otherwise, no.

    As an interesting side note, if someone finds a wallet with cash in it and there is nobody around and no chance of getting caught, then only 5s and *sometimes* 4s will return the wallet with all the contents they originally found. 90% of people will, at the very least, keep the cash - even if they return the other contents of the wallet.
     
  12. netflow

    netflow New Member

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    I'll agree with what's been said, I'll agree that pirates suck, I'll agree that regulations that make their life more difficult is good and I'll also agree that pirates will always find a way around anything anyone can throw at them.
    I firmly believe that Piracy is a wakeup call that the current financial model of this and many other industry is outdated and needs to be thrown out with the bath water. The RIAA gave us a wonderful gift in showing us what happens when we cling and fight for our old comfortable business model and the Asian MMO market has shown us what happens when we radically adopt that model and innovate on how we make money in our business.

    Piracy isn't going anywhere no matter what anyone does, but you can bet your bottom line that we, and other game developers sure as hell will if we don't adapt to the incredible changing environment we do business in.
     
  13. Dave TZ

    Dave TZ New Member

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    That's a really interesting article; thanks for the link.

    It touches on what I find disturbing about the whole piracy issue. I'm wanting to be a full-time indie developer and make classic single player games, and I'd like to think that my future customers will respect my work and pay me. If not and I really have to I'll employ some sort of extra service or check, but it feels wrong that I'd have to, like I can't trust my customers to care enough about their hobby to support their games' creators. I really hope things haven't got that far, but as a newbie I don't know if I'm just being naive. Given some of the comments I've read in the discussions on other forums it's quite depressing.
     
  14. Acord

    Acord New Member

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    You can't make those without a conscience feel guilty. I have tried.
     
  15. Mattias Gustavsson

    Original Member

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    . . . . . . . .

     
  16. princec

    Indie Author

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    I'm against any technical implementation to curb copyright violation. A technical implementation will lead to an arms race of technical workarounds. We will see entirely encrypted communications arise as a result of this kind of intervention.

    Cas :)
     
  17. JeBuS

    JeBuS New Member

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    Encrypting torrent transfers is as easy as clicking a single checkbox in most popular clients. The law won't do much.
     
  18. electronicStar

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    Yeah, I'm of the opinion that this kind of laws actually make the pirates stronger and more difficult to catch, a bit like virii.
     
  19. Dave TZ

    Dave TZ New Member

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    I know, but I don't particlarly want to sell to those jerks anyway. It's if the customers with a conscience are also pirating or (worse) there just aren't enough of them out there that I'd get worried. Not just because I would not make enough money, but it's a very scary concept in and of itself.

    But I'm new at this, and have at least a year before I even have a game to sell and test out the market forces first hand. I don't know whether I'm totally clueless here about the reality of the market.
     
  20. Aldacron

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    Because everyone knows that hijacking ships on the high seas and illegally downloading software are one and the same. :eek:

    Pirates, as in the kind currently preying on shipping lanes near Somalia, steal. Piracy in that case is stealing. I find the belief that one those words is applicable to the case of illegally obtaining copyrighted material, while the other isn't, to be rather pedantic. Pirating is stealing, whether it happens on the high seas or on the desktop.
     

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