Hmm, not sure I liked that IGF stuff

Discussion in 'Indie Related Chat' started by zoombapup, Mar 18, 2010.

  1. PoV

    PoV
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    Indeed. This year I had soooo much more time to be social and hang out with other developers. Exhibiting last year was a great experience, but by far, this year I had a far better time. I actually knew people in person, which made casual "Dood!"ing far less awkward. I do know it's going to be tough for me to top 2010 though. So many awesome things happened this year, heck, are still happening! WAAAAH!

    You bring up a good point too. I also had no idea when we were supposed to leave for the award ceremony my first year. We did have someone show us to the booths and give us some instructions though. While exhibiting, we had to fight for chairs. I think I stole mine from the PixelJunk guys. ;)
     
  2. DrWilloughby

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    For people that are there by themselves, it really helps to have other people that can demo the game so you can sneak away. For Venture Africa, I snuck away from the booth a lot, partly because I didn't think I would win and partly because it wasn't a game that showed all that well on the floor. For Monaco, it was really important for the game to show well, so I tried to spend most of my time at the booth. Even so, I gave out my extra passes to some other indie developers in exchange for a little booth time.

    2000 is a lot to spend... others have given their passes to locals before when they can't make it. It's certainly no reason to not enter the IGF, but certainly understandable why someone would feel they couldn't make it (and send someone in their stead).
     
  3. vjvj

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    I was one of the biggest IGF nerd ragers last year, but I have to say that they really do seem to be improving. This was the first time in years where I felt the bulk of the nominations and awards made any sense. I mean, while I haven't tried Monaco yet, from the videos it looks exactly like the kind of game that IGF should be showering attention upon.

    Don't get me wrong, IGF still has some room for progress, but they are headed in the right direction. And yes, I'll be the first person to stand up and say that this whole "indie circle jerk" culture at GDC annoys the shit out of me, but I blame that more on the community. I mean really, anyone can call themselves an "indie developer" these days, so it should be no surprise to see a large number of university kids aching for romantic anecdotal moments. I was the same way when I was their age; glorifying the crunch, sticking it to the man, relishing how great it is to be indie, bashing marketing people, etc.

    In fact, if I have any major complaint about GDC these days, it's the uselessness of the Indie Summit. Waaaay too much anecdotal circle jerking going on and not enough meat and potatoes. We need more experienced guys like Ron Carmel speaking, and less of the stupid crap. As it stands, I don't think the Indie Summit is worth the price of the badge; I spent all my time in tutorials this year, LOL.
     
  4. ChrisP

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    Yes, I thought the judging process was a lot better this year. Full disclosure: I was a judge this year. (Clearly, it was my presence alone that made the difference. :D )

    Seriously though: There were many more judges, and comments were required, which were both positive changes. I've heard (read) entrants say that the comments were a lot better this year, and I know that I personally gave very detailed feedback.

    Arguments about the necessity of a glitzy awards show aside, the IGF is doing a lot of things right and the organisers should be congratulated for the improvements they've been making to what was always a great institution to have. I hope they take this year's successes and continue to build on them.

    Continuing on the in-conference support theme: I wonder if the IGF would be interested in setting up a "mentoring" kind of meeting, very early in the conference, between the new batch of finalists and any previous winners/finalists who are able to attend? Call it an "IGF alumni meeting" or something. :D Organisers could show up, say a few words including some admin stuff, and let everyone mingle afterwards. The previous year's main prize winner (who is typically at the conference anyway to present the next main prize) could get some podium time as well. They could even do a "go around the circle and introduce yourself" thing - just being able to match games to faces would have been brilliant.

    On a broader level, fostering more of a sense of community via the IGF, helping to make those connections between a group of people who are often a bit shy, would be a great thing.

    I am kind of liking this IGF alumni idea.
     
  5. DrWilloughby

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    I'd certainly be down to get together early in the week, I'm always down for social stuff. I'm not sure there's much to know, and the press tends to just come by whenever they want to come. Having the IGF PR person scheduling press would be great, but there's no way they are going to be able to get everyone. It's still simply best to try to be at your booth as much as possible if you want to make yourself available for press. Still, it would be nice if the PR person could set up times for some of the more major press sites to come by, just to make sure you are there.
     
  6. cliffski

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    I entered this year. I don't recall getting any feedback at all, and I know from server logs only 1 judge actually tried out the games challenge system (which is a huge part of the game).
    So not a great use of the entrance fee from my POV, but YMMV.
     
  7. DrWilloughby

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    This is why I kept trying to tell them to reduce the feedback requirements rather than increase it - people shouldn't be expecting to get "value" for their entry fee. The entry fee pays for the contest.

    Although, it is true that requiring more feedback from the judges forces them to look at the games a little closer, so in that sense it's a good idea.

    In any case, cliffski, you should do a quick search on your email for an email titled "Feedback/Scores on Your IGF 2010 Entry", everyone got one.
     
  8. ninesquirrels

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    Nope. I mark this year as the year I officially, for ever and ever, stop showing up for GDC. When I think of the time I lost getting there, getting back, getting over the jetlag it caused, and the money in tickets, flights, hotels, and so forth... and compare that against the value of quietly working on my next game for a week... Fuck it. I'm done.

    For my money, the Casual Connect events are smaller, more focused, and have a better mix of people that can actually help me in my business and make the trip worthwhile. In terms of making money, in 5 years of running Boomzap, I've made about 75% of my deals at a Casual Connect event... and 0% at GDC and/or E3.

    ... but it's unlikely that anyone will ever consider it a reasonable forum for the IGF, since it is likely not inclusive enough for the variety of games that compete in the IGF. Which is a shame, because the one thing I *will* miss about GDC is the IGF. But not enough to pay the cost it takes to get there. I'd rather spend that cash/time on our next game.
     
  9. Twitchfactor

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    I think I'm starting to get it now...

    "Indie" doesn't mean "independent developer", it means; elitist hobbyist who likes to make quirky games on the side, while working some other job, never making any money doing such (because that would be bad...mmm'kay...), and shunning anything that becomes even remotely popular.

    Guess I'll never be "indie", even though I've been a Professional game developer for 25+ years and was making 1-man games before such silly terms as "indie" even existed.

    You guys are funny. You get mad because there's a little shine and polish to something. You get mad when someone dares to make a decent living doing what you lust after. You stand on mountain tops screaming about "innovation", when all you're doing is regurgitating variants on games myself and your other forefathers made decades before. And you get mad when someone dares to offer you a job which would allow you to do full-time what you do as a hobby.

    I for one am about getting paid, because I would not be able to survive as a professional game maker, honing my craft and providing enjoyment to millions of people, unless games actually made money.

    There will always be starving artists out there and that's neat, but don't turn your nose up at your own kind, just because they "made it". I'm sure a lot of the people you call "class A douchebags" have actually worked really hard to provide for themselves, others and make "indie" and any other gaming a valid business, career and art-form, that is respected my millions, instead of shunned and considered "toys for kids and geeks".
     
  10. DrWilloughby

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    EDIT: no sense riling things up. In any case, though, I'm not sure where you are directing your anger or why it's warranted in this thread.

    EDIT #2: OK, I reread the beginning of the thread and I assume it's directed at the original couple of posts. I was actually enjoying the productive conversation the thread had evolved into.
     
    #50 DrWilloughby, Apr 3, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2010
  11. Moose2000

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    Seriously? You're suggesting that the Oscars aren't about selling stuff, but about getting a bunch of celebrities together because people like to see them and they're kind like that?

    It's not about the game industry wanting to be Hollywood, it's about an awards ceremony doing the job it's supposed to do.
     
  12. cliffski

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    I think a lot of people, mainly in california, forget that GDC is a HUGE way to travel for anyone not in the US. It just makes a massive difference.
    If GDC was in London, I would probably go, but how many of you from the US who went to GDC this year would make that trip?
    Obviously GDC has to be 'somewhere'. It's just unfortunate that for some people, it will hardly ever make economic sense to attend.
    Add to the cost, the fact that I dislike flying (feel claustrophobic) and am a tree-hugging hippie, and I can't see me ever attending a conference I'd have to fly to.
    A pity because it would be cool to meet all these indies like Andy in a real life place that sells drinks :D
     
  13. zoombapup

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    Hmm, not sure where this is coming from. I don't remember reading anyone call anybody a douchebag either. But it seems like you think we're saying the IGF has "sold out" in some way? Is that it?

    My own point (cant speak for anyone else) wasnt about the commerciality of the IGF but more the fakeness of the IGF "awards", which if you were there, you would understand what I meant. I'd never been in a situation like that before, where presenters actually read off a script from a huge prompter at the back of the hall, the whole thing just felt so surreal.

    Why I disliked it is a personal thing, but I find that it is far less human and I'm not sure the industry needs things like that. Maybe it does, but trying to copy hollywood and present the industry as a glamorous one is kind of funny to me. Given most of the entrants to the IGF probably slaved away in a garage or spare room, to give it the trappings of hollywood production seems somewhat off the mark.

    The motivation is good though, to get indie games in front of a bigger audience.

    Still, I think you're maybe reading some of the posts wrongly. I'm certainly not trying to put down anyone's successes or suggest that its wrong to want it. I guess I'd just rather see a more genuine display, much like I'd rather everything in my life was genuine. I mean we're presented with so much fake corporate bollocks everyday and my mind rebels against it.
     
  14. Reactor

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    You can say that again.
     
  15. DrWilloughby

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    It is easy to forget about the cost for you guys. But I promise if you come next year drinks are on me. :)
     
  16. vjvj

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    Interestingly, I live in CA and often debate whether or not I should even go. All the talks are recorded, now, and you can view them in the GDC Vault. You need to get the most expensive pass to view them, unfortunately, but it does eliminate all your travel costs. Something to keep in mind.
     
  17. Jim Buck

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    Psst.. there is also a GDC in Europe. (I went last year and gave a talk.) It is a much smaller scale than the GDC in California, of course, but it is an option for the Europeans. I'm not sure if it's typical every year, but in 2009, it was semi tied to Gamescom, a conference that makes the heyday of E3 look like a wart on a gnat.
     
  18. Krystman

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    Psst... I paid the 800€ to sit in the audience and it was pretty much a rip-off. No offense, of course. I don't think I have been to your talk actually. But from what I've seen it was a very limited collection of mostly lukewarm talks with a very low number of anonymous participants. Interesting no doubt but simply nowhere near worthy the trip even if you live in Germany, let alone the hefty price of admission. I was quite disappointed.
     
  19. Krystman

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    I recently took a peek into the GDC Vault and found it pretty cool. I would be quite interested in a vault-only pass.
     
  20. Jim Buck

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    Yeah, I was disappointed in GDC Europe as well, but it's least an option for those over there that don't want to fly to San Francisco. Maybe not even to attend sessions but to hobnob with those that happen to be in town for the conference (including GamesCom).

    As for my talk, mine was the 3rd highest rated, so it wasn't me that was bringing the quality down. :) (The only unfortunate part of my talk was that it was scheduled in the same slot as Peter Molyneux's.)


     

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