From 0 to 100 in PTK ( bighfish acquires funpause )

Discussion in 'Feedback Requests' started by patrox, Jan 6, 2006.

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  1. Batley

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    Well the style is unique. He did finish a game but you could argue that what made it fun and its subsequent success was the result of a third party. Although fun is subjective and down to personal opinion.
     
  2. electronicStar

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    Are you making a distinction between "entrepreneurial spirit" and "independant spirit" ? If so, I can't agree with that. You can be an independant and at the same time have the desire to break barriers and all these things you attribute to "entrpreneurial spirit" (which concept is a founding myth that I don't share).
    IMHO there is no incompatibility between "hobbyist" and "entrepreneur".
    BTW this thread isn't really going anywhere since we are discussing about terms which aren't clearly defined.
     
  3. Ricardo C

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    ...Meanwhile, Emmanuel is counting his big fat piles of money and giggling himself silly :D
     
  4. JPGinLA

    JPGinLA New Member

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    Anyone ever see the movie Ground Hog Day?
     
  5. Anthony Flack

    Indie Author

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    Have we decided whether or not I've done enough to earn the right to an opinion yet? Never mind; I'll keep having one anyway. If it's an opinion that runs counter to other peoples', then so much the better - I'll often say things that go against the general consensus; but this way we get a more balanced perspective, right?

    And I don't think anybody guru worships me of course - but there is always a certain mutual understanding that comes when people have been discussing things for a long time, and over the years a lot of us here have gotten to know each other fairly well. So even though I might sound like a troublemaker sometimes, people know that it's my sincere belief and it's backed up by my work (which is also serious).

    More importantly, hopefully most people feel that there is value in at least some of the things I say on this board. But a message board like this is primarily about sharing ideas rather than about personalities - I've never liked the suggestion that an idea only becomes valid when it's expressed by the "right" person.
     
  6. Dan MacDonald

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    I am suggesting there is a dichotomy between the "entrepreneurial spirit" and the "independent spirit", however the two are not mutually exclusive. You can pursue your your passion and have a slant for creating a business or a carrier out of it at the same time.

    What I see a large trend in these forums is trying to create a business and work a little passion into it. I'm not saying this is wrong or bad, it's commendable. Again, it's a question of values, some value financial independence, and "being your own boss" more then they value the craft of making games. Weather or not game are "Art" is a topic for the ages, but I think we can all agree that the act of programming and designing a game is an artistic/creative process. Some value the artistry of game development above financial independence and the ability to "be your own boss". This leads them to make different choices when they set about to design and develop a game.

    I think we you are focused on the artistry of making games you do exactly what Steve Pavlina would tell you not to do. You make a game for you. This doesn't mean you make a competitor to WoW, this means you dream up something that inspires you and make it. Or maybe you take something from yoru childhood and re-create it. River City Ransom for example. There's not much justification for an RCR game in the Casual / Downloadable space, but if you aren’t too concerned with making a full time living off your games then you don't worry about it and you go ahead and make it. This is what makes independent games great, they don’t have to look and play just like luxor and chuzzle, and make $$$ they are free to be anything that interests and inspires their developer.
     
  7. arcadetown

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    Still waiting for Svero's crazy huge pocket company to scoop us up and alien to kidnap us while on an ocean cruise.

    FunPause joining with BigFish is a no-brainer given BigFish being exclusive publisher and doing a good job getting their games out, including ArcadeTown. Fairies while not my cup of tea, is definitely a very solid and polished game demonstrating solid talent.

    Nobody will take over the world in any internet space. The bigger you get the more defocused you get allowing others to step in.
     
  8. Uhfgood

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    I think these kind of arguments are unproductive. The problem is, they're most unproductive for me because i'm the one that reads them. ;-)
     
  9. Emmanuel

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    Pov: Funpause (now BFG Studio Europe) is 3 full-time people. We're also lucky that we get to work with external talent like Julianne Regan who did the title song and voices for Fairies.

    Best regards,
    Emmanuel
     
  10. PoV

    PoV
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    Thanks for the response. I wasn't sure if you guys had expanded to another team before the acquisition. From the companies I've worked for, and the inside scoop at my friends company, 30+ employees seemed to be the magic number for acquisitions. It's interesting to see it can also work out even with a smaller team. Congratz again.
     
  11. picman

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    Hello from Big Fish Games

    In spite of the debate of what is an Indie is and who can express an opinion here ...I will go out on a limb and express mine :)

    Big Fish Games is a small but growing company. In the debate of craftsman vs. entreprenuer, I am an entreprenuer (though I started as a craftsman, as I built(yes, I am a programmer as well) by myself, Mahjong Towers I and II, Top Ten Solitaire, Bursting Bubbles, Word Wizard, Word Search Deluxe, Loony Links, Critical Mass, Scatoms, Glacier Bay, Big Balloon Blowout...all within 15 months) but as our distribution grew, the business passion outweighed the craftsman in me and I had no time to develop games.
    We have since built a small studio with hit games like Magic Vines, Mystery Case Files, and Mahjong Towers Eternity.
    Our relationship with Funpause goes way back and there was deep mutual admiration and respect on both sides, so the 'acquisition' was more of a partnership evolution than a big company gobbling up the indie developer scenario. We strucutured the deal in a way that allows Funpause to pursue their passion (the creative 'craftsman' side of the business) and not have to worry about the more mundane 'business' side of the equation. The structure (stop me if I am saying to much Emmanuel) was such that it compensated him for the work he had done to date, gives him a stake in the eventual success of Big Fish Games, and gives him upside in the success of the future games he developes(and eliminates the need to ever worry about 'paying the bills' and other mundane corporate stuff). Big Fish Games continues a very similar role as we did prior to the acquisition...that of idea generation and refinement when requested by Funpasue, an experienced QA team, and access to huge alpha and beta test groups to refine the concepts, a role we occasionally play with other independant developers who request it.

    I hope this helps....I try not to post here an leave it up to true 'indies', but try to add value when I can.

    Paul
    (The Big Fish)
     
  12. picman

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    before I am mocked

    I realize I mis-spelled entrepreneur :D
     
  13. Dan MacDonald

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Thanks for taking the time to post Paul, while there may be some debate as to the crafting and business aspects of independant game development, I'd like to think that we all can find a voice here regardless of how we do it or where we fall in the spectrum of independant.

    In terms of BigFish i've always been appreciate of the fact that you would take a chance on games developed by independants that none of the big portals would. In doing so you provide an avenue for those looking to make profit from their development that they might have not had otherwise. I suspect that if one of the "crafting" indies came up with something off beat and different BFG would be more likely then some of the other portals to put it out there and see how it does.

    I dont think we are on opposite sides of the fence at all, and feel free to post were you thing you may have insight. Careful though, its possible to get burned around here :)
     
  14. svero

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    I have a question. I can see the value to funpause from this partnership. What do you see as the primary value to Bigfish in the acquisition? How is the acquisition better for you than say... Simply continuing to act as funpause's publisher?
     
  15. picman

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    What's in it for Big Fish Games

    IP (intellectual property) ownership of source code for alternate channels (mobile, retail, community games, etc.) and IP ownership is very important in the event we get acquired someday. Also, being able to have a Mac DRM, distribution competancy and portal is a nice bonus.

    Paul
     
  16. TimS

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    I'd just like to say that whatever your feelings on the 'goodness' of the acquisition of FunPause... they have come a long way.

    Remember this?

    FunPause at the time, (not much more than a year ago) was putting forward a game... called Garden War. I distinctly remember... (no offense intended), thinking "Hey alright... another youthful programmer has discovered the ways of MFC and programmer art".

    Whatever else there is to say, FunPause has come a LONG way in the short time of a year... I find myself looking at our first project (not yet out) and finding no possible way I could make as big a leap from it to whatever we do in a year's time within only a year.

    I just want to heartily congratulate Emmanuel... not so much for the acquisition, which I'm sure some would take and some would leave... but for clearly being sharp as a damned tack and beating the HELL out of this indie-games thing given the progess that FunPause has made within such a short period of time. There are MANY who are still adding particle effects to their proverbial "Garden War" titles, while you've moved extremely rapidly from title to title, learning a bit about how to do it each time, and parlaying those lessons learned into work well made. Your growth as a developer of games astounds me.

    Cheers,

    -Tim
     
  17. Jack Norton

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    Funpause did 2 things correctly:
    - he didn't listen too much to what others said (whoever they might be)
    - he adopted an already well tested library (PTK) instead of "making his own engine" (a common mistake I see everywhere)

    Worked hard of course but that often isn't enough, I saw many people work hard to achieve minimal results (including myself).
    And is really surprising to see that despite the huge success he is having, he always kept a low profile. I think modesty and success are strictly related... ;)
     
  18. Savant

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    Modesty? Am I the only one who remembers Emmanuel continually updating the Atlantis/Fairies threads every single time they entered a top 10 or were released on a new portal? :)
     
  19. Sharpfish

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    I think a persons actions can be seen in many different ways. I sometimes feel Emmanuel is quite aloof rather than just humble.. sometimes his post frequency is enviably low.. something I aim for ;)

    Always been pleasant and respectful though which is more than can be said for a few around here .... :)
     
    #99 Sharpfish, Jan 10, 2006
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2006
  20. Jack Norton

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    Maybe he did that in response to the fact that when Atlantis first was out, manye people said that was just a clone and wouldn't have sold much... :D
    I think everyone would have done the same thing (I would have done worse myself).

    Random quotes from the Atlantis announcement thread:
    http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?t=3817

    And well myself I just said that:
    I was wrong, it went even in top ten of Real!
     
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