EDMUND-A game about a Rapist [FREEWARE][NSFW]

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Farmergnome, Aug 8, 2009.

  1. princec

    Indie Author

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    I personally found Soldier of Fortune to be one of the most offensive games I ever played. But play it I did, and enjoy it. Which is worse - a litle bit o' slap n rape or shooting the limbs off an Iraqi one by one with a machine gun and watching their writhing torso floating in the air for a few seconds?

    Cas :)
     
  2. Oddbob

    Oddbob New Member

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    I thought Rick Dangerous was far worse, but that's just me ;)

    And rightly one should be angry if someone is going out to bait victims or use a sensitive subject for their own self promotion (see JFK Reloaded, Muslim Massacre and Super Columbine Massacre for reference here).

    It's pretty clear that if Edmund was going to do that, it wouldn't be the game it actually is, mind.

    I don't doubt it'll rankle a few folks moral sensibilities because for something made up of but a few pixels and a couple of sound effects, it's pretty graphic indeed. But the argument that it's sensationalist sort of hinges on Edmund treating the subject lightly or clearly for the authors personal gain - which it doesn't to the former and I fail to see any logic to the latter. Short of flashing a message up saying "RAPE IS BAD, MMMK" in 200 point letters, Edmund couldn't hammer the point that this is -a bad thing- more if it tried.

    So, it's not sensationalising it. It's not glorifying it. It is, however, tackling the subject of it with clear morality. There isn't any "well, it's up to you to interpret it" get out of jail free card for the author here like Tale Of Tales are fond of using to hide their misanthropic design. There's no "look at me, I'm a big man, I did a shocking thing, hahaha". I'd have thought the increased exasperation of Farmergnome in trying to get people to play it before flying off the deep end might have been a bit of a giveaway.

    I guess I'm sorta asking that folks can y'know, assess the work - whether it is good or bad, their own personal reactions to it, whatever and leave the passive aggressive and/or personal digs outs of it because it just sends everything circular.
     
  3. cliffski

    Moderator Original Member

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    Censorship is not even the issue. This forum is privately owned and run by individuals who can do whatever they want with the posts here. Nobody has a 'right' to post anything on here. The forums are free and run very generously as a gift to the indie community.

    For example, If you suggest on my (positech) forums that captain janeway is better than sisko, I would delete the post*. Thats not censorship, its just someone who pays the bills deciding what content is on their site.

    Censorship is what governments do, not internet forums.


    *not really.
     
  4. LLJamie

    LLJamie New Member

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    I think the problem is that books, movies, and other media are passive. Games are active. It's not necessarily that the media is immature - it's that the consumer of the media is not watching something happen, they are making it happen. It's a lot easier to invoke emotional responses when you present the consumer with choices. In many respects, I'd say the medium is more mature than any other because of that.
     
  5. Qitsune

    Qitsune New Member

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    Well I'm female and I can't say I'm too offended. On one hand, rape exists and maybe we aren't aware of it enough. Maybe more awareness in the media would help victims speak out more. On the other hand, I don't know if the trailer is out of context but there doesn't seem to be a story or consequences. Without reasons or consequences, it's just gratuitous and pointless. Of course, shooting people in the head is gratuitous and pointless and gamers do it every day so it doesn't mean that games can't be pointless. But I think a SERIOUS game can't be pointless. Seriousness requires more than monochrome colors and gritty fonts flickering on screen.

    Edit: I didn't play the game, but if your trailer doesn't represent the game well, why the fuck was it posted? You have to be conscious that many people will decide wether or not to try the game based on the trailer.
     
    #65 Qitsune, Aug 10, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
  6. Farmergnome

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    I would love for you to play the game, and Ive already answered why the trailer only represents a small part of the game, please read before posting.

    Here it is, page 2...
    And the trailer DOES represent the game well, if you choose to go down the path of actually raping the women, you have the choice not to also. But you would know that if you had played it.
     
    #66 Farmergnome, Aug 10, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
  7. Maupin

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    Perhaps it's possible to create an intelligent trailer that reflects the true nature of the game as well as preparing potential players for the rape topic? :rolleyes:

    Looks to me like you were hoping to rile people up and succeeded.
     
  8. MFS

    MFS New Member

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    After playing, I don't think he could without giving away too much of the game.

    Farmergnome: the game is impressive in that it made everyone I show it *feel* something (which was yes, generally a terrible feeling) and that is pretty hard to do in video games. The atmosphere is very good and there is an excellent use of sound to achieve emphasis (and agony.) I played it several times, trying to find every possible outcome (I think there are 3 truly distinct, full endings?) and the game achieves a lot for its length.

    At the same time, I think your point would've come across crystal clear without the actually visible raping -- a total fade to black and just a few sounds would have conveyed the essence and kept the integrity of the scene! Hitting the woman itself had a very strong impact on me when playing and the pixel rape didn't hammer that home anymore -- it just made the scene feel obscene in execution.

    Again, not wanting to criticize much, because with 5 minutes of gameplay you've captured the essence of making your audience feel strongly about a concept; something I've never been able to do in any of my games.

    Good luck with the competition.
     
  9. Farmergnome

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    Thanks man for giving it a shot :) Not only did you nail why I couldn't stick more in the trailer without giving it away too much, but... you actually played it!

    There was some discussion on the fade out techniques on the tigsource forum, I think the most impressive argument against it is the game is there to repulse you, and a fade with a scream or something similar would only leave the player feeling safe.... after committing a vile act.

    It would send the wrong message, it would say, its okay to rape someone, you did something horrible but because your here to play my game ill fade out the bad bits for you.

    Which isn't what the game is about.

    If they rape any of the girls in the game, I WANT them to feel violated and disgusted, I want them to realize what they are doing is wrong, I want to knot there stomach.

    Thanks for playing though dude. :)
     
    #69 Farmergnome, Aug 10, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
  10. HDL

    HDL New Member

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    You keep saying 'just play the game'. If you want more people to play the game then you need to make some changes to the way in which you're advertising it.

    There's been several people who've mentioned that the video is not actually a fair representation of your game. That people have the wrong idea about your game and don't wish to play it is your fault. The video gives the impression that the sole purpose of the game is that you get to play a rapist who runs around beating up women and raping them. Now you're saying that there is actually more to the game than that but the video's already sickened me enough that I don't care. This might be the most disturbingly insightful game there's ever been. It might be such a profound commentary on society as a whole. It might have the most incredible storyline that's ever existed. It might be the best game in the universe but I'll never play it because you failed in one crucial place.

    Looking at the video I got the impression that it was a game that glorified rape. There's no context in it. Just some pixelated guy beating and raping a woman. "Hahhaaa I'm a rapist! Hahhaaa see me inflict pain on women!" There's no indication that there's anything more about the game.

    Your trailer is meant to make people want to play the game. It doesn't make me want to play.

    I think instead of saying to people "you're wrong" you should be asking "well how do I represent this game better? How should I reword my description of the game? How do I make a trailer which will accurately show that this isn't a game that glorifies rape but instead is my attempt to tackle the subject with a mature sensitivity?" (Or whatever it is that you are trying to do).

    I think you need to work on your advertising strategy. You are tackling a very controversial subject after all. I know you're frustrated by the sheer number of people who're just saying "I haven't played this game and here's what I think." But that's your fault. I'm frustrated that you asked for feedback on what you knew was a very controversial subject and rather than listening to what is given and trying to see where you can improve things (even if it's not the area you planned to change) you're just saying that everyone who disagrees with you is wrong.
     
  11. Nexic

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    I played the game. Was fairly interesting and did bring about some emotions so it's a success in that respect. However I have to agree that by looking the trailer it's easy to believe it's just pixel porn.
     
  12. princec

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    I'm not actually going to play it. Here's why: it's a game about rape. I can't quite fathom why I'd want to play a game about rape. Whether it's fun or not, or has some deep and meaningful artistic message. Games for me are an exploration of rules systems, sometimes mirroring the real world, sometimes not, sometimes exploring thought processes, always, always, about something I might enjoy doing somewhere deep in my primeval skull. Chess and RTS to plot strategy. FPS to vanquish my enemies. Platformers to simulate abstrations of physics and exploring. But rape? Why would I want to toy with the rules surrounding rape? There's only one rule, don't, and that doesn't make for much of a game.

    And FWIW, indiegamer's really about professional game producers trying to earn a crust making games, and this is freeware, and hence probably in the wrong forum. Sensationalist but essentially unsaleable stuff belongs on TIGsource.

    Cas :)
     
  13. ragdollsoft

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    Yeah we don't take kindly to rape games around here, and much less to freeware!
     
  14. Reactor

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    I was going to write something very similar, but since someone else said it, I'll quote it instead.
     
  15. TeeGee

    TeeGee New Member

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    That's right! Let's get back to toying with rules surrounding killing. Preferably with chainsaws and in slow motion. That's way more enjoyable ;).
     
  16. AlexWeldon

    AlexWeldon New Member

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    Hmm. I kind of have to agree with the OP, even though his attitude is at times obnoxious. If you have not and will not play the game, you don't really have any business discussing its moral worth.

    If you've watched the trailer, it's fair to comment on that. If you say it's off-putting and makes you less, rather than more likely to play the game, the OP should consider that to be useful feedback.

    However, it's completely unfair to condemn the game itself as tasteless and a cheap shock tactic to gain attention if you haven't played it. Especially since not only the OP, but nearly everyone who has actually bothered to try it says it is neither of those things.

    No one is forcing anyone to play this game. If you take one look at the thread title, the original post, or the trailer, and decide it's not for you, that's perfectly okay. However, you do not have the right to an opinion about someone's creation if you've deliberately avoided exposing yourself to it at all, let alone making an honest effort to understand it. It's as if I went on the iTunes store and started posting bad reviews of CDs I haven't listened to, based on my opinion on the cover art.
     
    #76 AlexWeldon, Aug 11, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2009
  17. Maupin

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    Well said and I couldn't agree more.

    FarmerGnome's trailer for Schindler's List: 10 seconds of Jews being killed.
     
  18. princec

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    It's a good thing we've all had this discussion because I was just about to post a video of my latest Java creation, "BUTTFUCKER, a game about FAG SEX", where you bend someone over in 3D and aim your cock with the mouse and fuck them up the arse till they bleed. Well, that's just the bit in the video. The actual game explores the sensitive and complex side of homosexuality and relationships.

    Cas :)
     
  19. Reives Freebird

    Reives Freebird New Member

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    I suppose when it comes to shooting off the head of an innocent civilian and watch as their open neckhole turn into a fountain, there is much more of a dilemma as to whether or not one should do it.

    There is also a stark contrast between GTA's immoral actions and this - GTA glorified it, this did the opposite.

    If I had only watched the video, I would've thought it was like River City Ransom except with rape. That's a problem.
     
  20. Jim Buck

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    Posts like this should come with a warning attached "please do not have a mouthful of cereal while reading"!

     

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