EDMUND-A game about a Rapist [FREEWARE][NSFW]

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Farmergnome, Aug 8, 2009.

  1. andrew

    andrew New Member

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    Very repulsive. But I do support his right to make it, and making a game that provokes emotions in people (even if the emotion is "disgust") isn't easy.

    (and from the TIGSource thread...)

    Agreed. This is just a particular form of violence that games have not yet desensitized people to...

    - andrew
     
  2. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    who added the "offensive" tag. I didn't take any, tasteless though it may be. Mainly I thought the graphics and production values were just rammel...
     
  3. Oddbob

    Oddbob New Member

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    I'm sure there's a vague story in there somewhere but erm, it's vague! That's for sure...

    It -is- in context and the explicit visuals are a means to an end. If you've just watched the video then yeah, that's (deliberately?) out of context but there's more to the game itself.

    You *can* just get back into the taxi after the bus stop y'know? You -don't- have to do anything beyond talking to the lady. It's your choice. As it is as to whether you play the game or not...

    The thing is, I'd understand some of the speak your brain-isms were this some idiotic titillation gamething but it just isn't. It's a pretty darn well done and mature broaching of the subject.

    You're absolutely meant to be disgusted by the protagonist. That's a good thing to be. As I said elsewhere about it, I'd worry if you weren't because your moral-o-meter must be a bit fucked.

    The closest comparisons I can think of from other media are Diane by Husker Du which aims for similar discomforting territory or y'know that scene in Man Bites Dog where you stop laughing along? And it's perfectly valid territory to wander into PROVIDING you do it in a mature way. Edmund does just that.

    You don't have to like it, you don't even have to play it - but it's in no way a reflection on Paul being "sick" that it exists. It absolutely does not trivialise the act in anyway, it makes you complicit (if you choose) in the act, but in no way at any point does it make the actions taken in the game trivial.

    [edit]And unlike Super Columbine Massacre, this most definitely isn't controversial "for controversials sake"...
     
  4. JoKa

    Indie Author

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    Freedom above all other things. But I think a game like this should be kept away from the public. You can't spread it without offending the majority of people. Especially non-gamedevs will be highly irritated and the author should care about it.
     
  5. Farmergnome

    Original Member

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    Heres my question, shooting people, violent acts are in games, are in some of YOUR games, why is rape any different?

    This isnt a piss take game I should add, Ive tried to handle the topic with some maturity, but to find that out it would, you know, involve you playing it instead of making judgements without -actually playing the game-

    And personal attacks, try n keep it to a minimum eh?



    To those who did play it, you hate or loved it I don't care, you guys are awesome, and thanks.
     
    #25 Farmergnome, Aug 8, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2009
  6. Farmergnome

    Original Member

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    I didn't add the tags, I only added the "Not safe for work" tag because its not. As for the production values, it was made in 4 weeks outside my day job, I did everything except sound, so you sort of have to use your brain on that part and realise that I took some shortcuts.

    But hey if you want to throw stones, your "mega defender" ain't exactly the nicest thing to look at, maybe add another lense flare?
     
  7. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    It doesn't have any lens flares, and whilst my free game isn't all it could be either (yet), if you compare the two for visuals you'll just damage your credibility.
     
  8. Farmergnome

    Original Member

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    My credibility was out the door as soon as I put the word rape in the post. Your not helping by slinging insults now are you? I thought this was a professional game development forum?

    Getting back to my original question:

    Killing is in games, brutal murdering of... basicly anything, why not rape?
     
  9. Indiepath

    Indiepath New Member

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    I find the whole game concept insulting - to women! Someone get rid of this trash please it is just disgusting.
     
  10. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Um:

    Just being honest. No point lying to someone

    and

    So why did you post about this "game" then? You're not seriously gonna try and sell it?
     
  11. Farmergnome

    Original Member

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    Applewood > read the first post very slowly.

    Then read the forum tag... announcements.

    I released a game, this is a announcement, I want some feedback from developers, that requires some people to actually play it though, with a open mind I should add. I wan't people to stretch themselves a bit, I hope my game makes some emotion come out, its all the fun of being human I hear.

    Okay and slowly again, look at the forum thread, what does freeware mean? It means freeeee, as in, not for sale, free, you know.

    Does it realy come down to personal insults, tagging my works with quotes, "game", very subtle, Im pretty sure this wouldn't happen if I made the same game without the word rape in it. If you don't want to play it im not forcing you, the rape scenes within the game aren't even forced as oddbob pointed out. If you don't want to play it, then theres no pressure, theres lots of other announcement threads to troll.


    Infact look what I found:

    http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?t=14874&highlight=zompocalypse

    My last game I posted here, featuring baby kicking, tons of voilence and offensive shit, look at that rosey set of reponses, double standard hey?

    Look at that zombies head, its practically exploding, but hey thats funny right? right?
     
    #31 Farmergnome, Aug 8, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2009
  12. zoombapup

    Moderator Original Member

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    Its a very difficult thing for people to understand that we NEED to be able to do games with themes such as rape, otherwise we've already given up on having any real depth to the possibility space of games.

    I think its premature to start doing the kind of self-censorship of games that has been going on, but I can understand the cultural background that still pervades the media and its anti-game retoric. Frankly games are seen as "for kids" in such a large part of the public at large that it takes games that are really challenging for us to push things forward.

    As for what we personally feel about it, that doesnt really matter so much as what the creator intended for it. Art isnt about the product so much as about the intention of the creator. If the creator thinks this game is artful, then it is.

    If this is for a competition, I'm interested in seeing the other entrants to see if any alternative views on the subject have come up.
     
  13. Junkyard Sam

    Junkyard Sam New Member

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    I just don't think this game deserves any more outrage than Natural Born Killers, any of the SAW movies, Hostel, etc... Or GTA, etc. Maybe even any of the various Stephen King books with all the gratuitous torture or violence...

    I think this thread has turned into each person clamoring louder than the next in a sort of competition to see who can be the most anti-rape.

    We're all horrified by rape, and that's what made this game so creepy, bizarre, and disturbing. My wife used to wait at a bus stop once a week, late at night in San Francisco while pregnant with my first...

    Heck, if I'd played this game back then it would have done me some good not to allow her out into such risk.

    The game was moderately fun, extremely disturbing, really creepy with the sound and atmosphere you created with the film FX and grain --- and an interesting horror story. It was certainly more memorable than the average downloadable PC indie demo.

    And with this huge anti-response he's getting - clearly he succeeded very well with what he intended.



    EDIT:
    Look. I'll be honest. I enjoyed the game. It was the perfect length for a bitesize break during this grueling day. I have downloaded dozens of other PC demos that were nothing but a waste of time and this game wasn't.

    In the end... It's just a game. The violence was a bit silly, even, but the atmosphere was effective enough that it really did creep me out and disturb me.

    Hey guy-that-made-this-game --- you should make a touching little youthful summer-love type of game, something touching and romantic, next, just to show you can do it. Go the opposite direction with the atmosphere. Make it warm, etc...

    OBLIGATORY PS:
    Yes I find rape to be horrifying, terrible, and an abomination.
     
  14. Junkyard Sam

    Junkyard Sam New Member

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    IN FACT, I'LL GO OUT ON A LIMB AND SAY THIS...
    Where was this level of intense outrage when the United States was killing tens and hundreds of thousands of men, women, and children, needlessly - in Iraq?! (And you UK guys, y'all have blood on your hands too so don't point the finger TOO much.)

    Where was this level of outrage when the US made TORTURE a standard methodology in foreign interrogations??? People were actually DYING in those interrogations... Little kids were tortured in front of their parents even. Horrible things were going on, and there is blood on all of our hands for allowing that to happen.


    I don't mean to get political here, but I HAVE to in order to make a point -- NO ONE DIED in the making or playing of this game, and yet it's getting a ferocious level of outrage that I didn't see when actual, real violence was being perpetrated in our names...

    No yellow ribbon on my car.
    sigh.


    Hey Farmergnome - THAT's what you SHOULD have done. You should have used this exact same atmosphere to make an Abu Ghraib game where you torture Iraqis. Now THAT would really be interesting... We're ALL opposed to rape, but when it comes to torture you'd find a bunch of Republican types cheering you for your game and thinking you're a "patriot" for making it.

    You should make that game, it's not too late... There's plenty of imagery you could source to do it, too, with those crazy pointed witch hats and the waterboarding, and the car batteries hooked to people's genitals.

    If Americans are so gung-ho about torture then they should try experiencing it first hand in one of your weirdo games.



    Hey, next you could even make a game where you deny people healthcare because they don't have health insurance!

    lol


    All I'm saying is - I don't see this kind of outrage about things that really matter, with real lives at stake... I guess because as long as Americans don't have to look at it, we're happy with it.

    Like meat. I wonder how many people would eat it if they had to kill the animals themselves (particularly in the torturous ways they are killed at meat-making plants...) (Not being preachy here - I ate a meat burrito last night. Just making a point.)
     
  15. Oddbob

    Oddbob New Member

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    Yup, it's quite the fascinating thing this though because games have to date been allowed to get away with all sorts of reprehensible stuff - but it's alright because there's a bit of a nod and a wink or it's deliberately left ambiguous (I'm not entirely sure how that's necessarily better if it allows any sort of message to be lost to the ether either, but that's another debate entirely).

    So we're ok with Porntris (I'm not saying we as in us here, I'm referring to a wider cultural thang), we're okay with Leisure Suit Larry, we're ok with The Path, we're ok with Beat 'Em and Eat 'Em, Sam Fox Strip Poker or tits out for Palace, Barbarian. So, we're ok with titillation, exploitation and all the mix that brings.

    They're all, it would seem, socially acceptable places to explore in the gamespace.

    Yet, it's morally outrageous to some to dare to confront something head on and say "y'know, this isn't a very nice thing".

    I, err, I don't get it. Really.

    ...and from a media that itself generally relies on body image/exploitation to sell copy, more so than any other industry outside of porn. The irony certainly isn't lost on me with them. At least, I guess, porn is more honest with its intentions and as a rule, a far more enjoyable read!

    Agreed. Although I understand some reservations when you're dealing with an industry that oft puts exploitation first and tits at teens (be they girl tits or man tits) to the forefront some folks can get a little jaded. It saddens me that the actions of an industry come to bear on those who do try and break out of that mould. It seems a little like saying "You can't have Luke Haines because Boyzone exist" or something.

    And in all fairness, a lot of people who truly believe they're some sort of mould breaking auteur are little more than stunted idiots with a malformed view of the world or self publicising idiots (or both!), which is partly why I found Edmund "refreshing". It's clearly been made for neither of the above reasons and we're a bit short on that in this old gamespace.

    This isn't something we should be tucking under the carpet, ashamedly, in case the populace fear it. Cripes, any other medium would treasure it and scream it from the rooftops.
     
  16. JGOware

    Indie Author

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    Surely you could have found something better to do with your time. :rolleyes:
     
  17. aiursrage2k

    Original Member

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    So because we have been desensitized to violence you thought it was good idea to start on rape.
     
  18. Oddbob

    Oddbob New Member

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    That's neither been said nor implied anywhere in the thread to date, man.
     
  19. defanual

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    The difference between violence and rape...

    I think the difference between violence and something like rape is it's something we see almost everyday (right, wrong or extreme). It's also something we've experienced in one form or another and there's context and argument for it been actually necessary in certain scenarios (self defence for instance).

    Rape on the other hand has no instance of been argued by normal human beings as ever being necessary or something to be trivialised like violence which is trivialised everyday by publications like news / media let alone games (zombie being killed comparison is a bad one) / movies. It's like asking why violence is okay but paedophilia isn't.

    The point is whether people played the game or not, most / all watched the video and you choose not to demonstrate a deeper meaning or careful / mature handling with the subject matter in the video (perhaps to provoke these reactions), therefore it shouldn't really be any surprise that the majority of people are gonna find it extreme and / or distasteful and respond (rightfully or wrongfully) in the manner they have.
     
  20. Reives Freebird

    Reives Freebird New Member

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    Sam's post and the controversy convinced me to see what the actual game was about.

    What I thought everyone who haven't played it should know (And shame on the OP for misleading it with the opening post's video, despite it proving to be an effect strategy for attention.):

    What this game is to rape is not the equivalent of GTA is to killing. GTA glorified all sorts of activities that were morally wrong (which I sense that most here were still fine with), this game did not glorify rape.

    In fact, I felt it did an astonishing job of condemning it.
    This was the exact kind of feeling I immediately felt, too.

    I was also impressed to find a way to beat the game within a few seconds - simply walk away. When you do that, the game ends. Nothing happens. The horrible act is never committed. The strange sense of satisfaction in that was something that no other game I know has achieved.

    In regards to the game's production values, I found it impressive that it achieved something that state of the art 3D graphics could not: An atmosphere that sends a chill up your spine. It did an excellent job of reflecting the horrendous nature of the act. At no point in the game was there a feeling of actual "fun" or what so ever from the act of rape (just the contrary), where as in GTA, I think many here found it fun to throw a grenade into a club full of innocent civilians.

    There is a vast difference between about something, and supporting something.

    ^That.
    ("I was the FIRST to go to war!!!")
     

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