Do not install games from sunnygames...

Discussion in 'Indie Related Chat' started by Dan MacDonald, Sep 21, 2004.

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  1. luggage

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    Rubbish, so I make a game that takes a year or so, don't charge and bundle it with WhenU. Someone else makes a game, doesn't charge and bundles that with WhenU. Who gets the money? There'd be just more and more versions of adware and spyware and the entire industry would crash (as well as just about every machine). Good thinking!

    It's not surprising when asked how long trial limitations should be that most would say "More than 60 days". It would save them buying it. You may as well ask them "would you like good games for free?" And you class that as 'HATE' - quite strong words there.

    As for download.com it's getting littered with maps and addons for games more than original games. One machine can only have so much spyware\adware and what happens when a users machines slows down to a crawl because of all the software you advocate having put on it? They'll take it somewhere to get fixed, get charged a nice sum of money and then the user suddenly doesn't like downloading software in fear it'll cost them again.
     
  2. cliffski

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    I am utterly astounded that anyone on here sticks up for adware. If I install a game from someone and its bundled with some adware, then not only do I uninstall the game immediately (and the adware) I make a mental note never to even consider buying a game from that same developer. Anyone who thinks bundling adware with their game is a good long term business model is just plain ill-informed, and they are certainly not people I would want to do business with.
    When will people learn that annoying your customers is not the way to retain them. Nobody reads the licence agreements, because they are too long and full of legal bullshit nobody understands.
    My games don't even HAVE a licence agreements, because I don't want to insult my customers by making them read/accept that kind of crap.
    me and my customers have a deal. I make great games, they try them for free, if they like them, they buy them. Its that simple, and that way everyone is happy. I see no room for adware in my business. ;)
     
  3. Greg Squire

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    Adware, Spyware and even the appearance of spyware in your games will tarnish your reputation for a very long time. My advice is DON'T DO IT! Don't sell out your good name for a little extra cash. It isn't worth it.

    Even the appearance of spyware can be bad. There is increased awareness of what spyware is today, and many people use personal firewalls that alert them when applications are wanting to access the internet (such as ZoneAlarm). So, any time your game or application "phones home", you better be sure that the user knows it's okay. Some examples of times that a user might expect a game to access the net are: During an in-game purchase, during a multiplayer game session, and during a software update check (if your game or app is that sophisticated).

    Even if the information you are gathering is not "personally identifiable", it will still be viewed by many as spyware. Look what happened to WildTangent's reputation. Their web driver collects some stats on the machine (mostly video card info), and then sends it to WildTangent. Their privacy policy here states that this info is used so that they can update the web driver to support the largest amount of hardware out there. (Conspiracy theorists might think otherwise, but I'm willing to accept that that is the case). So even though they info wasn't "personally identifiable", I think they went about it in the wrong way. There was no option to "opt-out", and they didn't make it real obvious that this was what they were going to be doing. A lot the bad press and misconceptions could have been avoided if they had a simple question in the install like, "would you like to send system config data to WildTangent for the purpose of bettering our WebDriver?"
     
  4. indiemaker

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    They had a link in their Installation that basically says there will be Adware junk installed. I don't like it, and I cancelled the installation.

    I'm amazed how fast they have grown. They have like 9 games on there now.

    Are those games they developed or 3rd party?
     
  5. Coyote

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    My machine was once crippled by adware. The crappy code replaced a segment of TCP/IP code so that it couldn't be removed, and when the buggy code broke down, all my TCP-IP based communication died. UDP still worked - which was the reason I knew I hadn't just lost all internet communication.

    Any program that is not part of the core O.S. that tries to obscure itself or the fact that is running or makes itself difficult to install, and runs even after the core program that it piggy-backed its installation onto has exited (or worse, been uninstalled) is cybernetic thievery, stealing system resources like CPU cycles and bandwidth against the user's knowledge or informed permission.

    Anything that would not be installed if it didn't hide its existance by burying itself in the depths of a EULA is IMO Malware, unethical and only given a veneer of questionable legality by clinging to a loophole.

    Now, this is something totally different from (for example) in-game advertising. I completely support that. But once you shut down the game, the advertising goes away.

    I also agree completely that adware / spyware could be the death of shareware. Think of it... television (broadcast, at least) has been a dominant entertainment medium for decades now - completely supported by advertising. But if the technology existed and was used when TV was introduced that would blare commercials throughout the house at all times of the day or night even when the TV was shut off, unplugged, and even thrown into the garbage, how many homes would have a television today?
     
  6. anothersomething

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    Maybe people missed the fact that I said WhenU was actually USEFUL and that I leave it installed ON PURPOSE even though I could EASILY go to the control panel and REMOVE it. It HAS NOT messed up my computer at all, and HAS NOT slowed it down either.

    Plain ill-informed eh? I wonder why eZula, WhenU, and others are doing so well and why people install there apps on purpose. According to WhenU's website, they have a 3-20% CTR on the advertisements they show. Anything doing that well can't completely suck.


    SOME ADWARE IS BAD, AND SOME WILL MESS UP YOUR COMPUTER. But not all.

    Also, I repeat that adware is NOT spyware.

    Any adware that is hard to remove, or any developers that sneak it on to your PC are evil. But if they have a 20 line TOS, and they state that this download includes adware, they haven't done anything wrong.
     
  7. indiemaker

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    All ADWARE is bad. They have no business being in a game in the first place. It gives shareware and downlaodable software a bad name, and harmful to our industry. These developers who put Adware are not thinking of the long term reprecussions, only thinking of short term gain.
     
  8. anothersomething

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    No, SOME ADWARE HAS GIVEN IT A BAD NAME. NOT ALL OF IT.

    edit: And many developers think about long term stuff, and overall, they think they will gain for it. As I said, WhenU SAVES PEOPLE MONEY AND TIME. Anything that figures out what you are buying and then shows you competing products instantly, as well as their prices, is EXTREMELY USEFUL in my opinion.
     
  9. cliffski

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    you have made your point. it seems nobody else here agrees with you (along with 99% of the web) so lets leave it at that shall we?
     
  10. robleong

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    Perhaps I should put a notice on my website that "downloads on this website do not contain adware, spyware, etc." - might now be worthwhile doing.
     
  11. anothersomething

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    ...and no one else here has said HOW ALL adware is bad.
     
  12. cliffski

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    *sigh*
    it annoys people. We don't want ads with everything we install. You might enjoy adverts plageuing every second of your life. the rest of us don't. You are obviously obsessed with adware. fine. Go become a millionaire using adware and spam emails. None of the rest of us want to discuss it any more, we all agree. adware sucks. As potential customers we don't have to justify why we hate adware, we just do. ever heard the phrase "the customer is always right?" or dont you care what they think?
     
  13. Andy

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    :confused:

    Dan. Please... Time to close this. No?
     
  14. cliffski

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    *LOOK COOl V*iagR_A get it NOW No Prescript3ion N33D^ded


    point made?
     
  15. Bluecat

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    Ok, I'll bite. ALL adware is bad.
     
  16. Greg Squire

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    No offense, but I’ve never understood the mentality of people who love ads and deliberately seek them out. (Maybe they are “marketing wannabes†or something) Obviously these people exist, as there are many people who watch and buy stuff from infomercials, QVC, and the Home Shopping Network. (Side Note: Some people have gotten so caught up in “impulse buying†that it has destroyed their credit, their lives and they ended up in therapy.)

    Personally I can’t stand most ads, so that’s why use pop-up blockers and watch pre-recorded TV (Dish PVR, kind of like TIVO) so I can “zap†those commercials. To each their own I guess.
     
  17. indiemaker

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    Not to belabor this for too long but Adware is far more pernicious than simple TV commercials for the main reason being that your privacy and control over your computer is being compromised in a serious way. I don't mind TV commercials since sometimes, they do provide information that I want such as a movie or such. But Adwares are in another category altogether.
     
  18. Greg Squire

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    Totally agreed. Luckily TV and radio ads haven't started popping out of my toaster yet. :D
     
  19. Greg Squire

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    It's probably a good idea for all us to have a Privacy Policy Page on our websites.
     
  20. Hamumu

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    http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/whenu-spam/

    I would tend to agree that adware isn't the problem. I used to use Go!Zilla, which was entirely ad-supported. The problem is deception and false advertising. I KNEW Go!Zilla was going to phone home and track ads, and that was the price I paid for it being otherwise free. They were very upfront. What appears to be happening on Sunnygames is utterly deceptive and reprehensible.

    Of course, I say "adware isn't the problem" with the understanding that the adware business is utterly disgusting and completely filled with predatory business practices like the link above indicates. So I guess I'm more saying that IN THEORY it's not the problem - you can do a completely ad-supported product and be upfront about it and non-evil... in theory.
     
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