Developer Contest

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by mjuricek, Oct 12, 2007.

  1. mjuricek

    mjuricek New Member

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    you see when I opened that add it did not give me any other choice. If I could edit the project leader I would. Btw I post a note there that real project leader is David Perry.
     
  2. Sybixsus

    Original Member

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    Oh. Well pardon my "bad idea" of trying to clarify who I was talking to before I made any further comment. I'll refrain from further comment altogether.
     
  3. Ricardo C

    Original Member

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    Well... If he isn't an Acclaim employee, then he has no business "clarifying" rules for anyone, does he?
     
  4. Spore Man

    Indie Author

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    Check and mate!
    :cool:

    Actually, I read the site's information and the submission is not a complete GAME, but a DEMO. :confused:

    BTW, check out the rest of the site and forums. The entire project is being designed off the backs of volunteers, with token rewards like Apple Ipods. :( I wish I didn't have a concience, so I could take advantage of people like this...
     
    #44 Spore Man, Oct 17, 2007
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2007
  5. HairyTroll

    Original Member

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    No, that is not how large engineering projects work. If it was, and if this was a project to build a bridge, then all bidders would have to build approximately 30%-50% of the bridge before knowing if they are to be awarded the contract.
     
  6. mairsil

    Indie Author

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    My point was that there is still considerable work put into a bid with absolutely no guarantee of winning the bid or recovering a single dollar of the design expenses. It is not unreasonable to develop a working prototype in an effort to secure a bid for a software contract. Even though you would not build a full scale prototype with a civil engineering bid, you are still going to have large design costs. As some have alluded to, this might not be the best venue to pick up development teams, but there certainly could be someone on here who wants to participate.

    Again, the problem seems to be a misunderstanding of the ownership of everything. The design of the game itself is being done by a community of volunteers. This includes everything from system design to art direction. The actual design and art will remain Acclaim's property.

    The physical implementation, the prototype/alpha, is what this "contest" is about. Developers are asked to build suitable implementations of the design decided upon by the community. In the end, the developers will still own all of the code to their implementation, but they will not own any of the design. If the developers want to repurpose their code to some other game design, then they can.

    Disclaimer: I worked on this project for several months, up to and including the release of this particular portion of the "contest", so I have intimate knowledge of exactly how this project works. I no longer work on the project solely due to time constraints.
     
  7. Sammgus

    Sammgus New Member

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    The physical implementation is a heck of a lot of work. To build on HairyTroll's bridge analogy, you can build 30% of the bridge and if you lose the contest, you keep the 30% complete bridge *but* you can't use it as part of a bridge.

    Someone keeps saying it's only a beta version that you need to present, but again you could pitch with that and get at least the same amount, and not have your design invalidated just by pitching it..
     
  8. mjuricek

    mjuricek New Member

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    you could use it a part of another bridge but it has to look different (can't use same blueprint)

    like mentioned alot before. This project is designed by rookies (which is true) and you guys keep saying that it's not as good opportunity for more experienced/pro teams. In that case you could assume that by entering this contest as a experienced team you would have very high chance to pull together submission that would yield you the contract.
     
    #48 mjuricek, Oct 17, 2007
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2007
  9. luggage

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    I dunno about all this. Why not let the 'losing' teams keep the rights to all their work?

    And where I'm from there's a world of difference between prototype, alpha and beta.
     
  10. Matt2East

    Original Member

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    I agree, the clause stating participants that don't win forfiet the rights to their work makes the contest format seem like a bum deal. Especially if the intent of the promotion is to attract experienced developers.
     
  11. Andy

    Original Member

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    Anyone can explain me why we let this continue. Someone publishes some strange new having no any connection to him.
    Why this thread isn't locked yet? I believe it already has pretty good development at gamedev.net...
     
  12. mairsil

    Indie Author

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    Why would it be? What rules does this thread violate? It's clear that most people here would not be interested in it, but there very well could be some people who are. We can disagree about the merits of the "contest" like we could disagree about the merits of any other game on this board, but there is no reason to lock the thread that I see.
     
  13. Backov

    Original Member

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    My new contest, inspired by these rules.

    You give me $10.

    If I like the $10 you gave me, I give you back $20.

    All losing contestants forfeit the rights to their $10.

    Paypal your entry to yourmoneyismine@example.com. Thanks for playing!
     
  14. Spore Man

    Indie Author

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    Here's how I understood their contest:

    The contest participants are NOT submitting an original game! They are supposed to build a beta demo based on TSP's DESIGN. David Perry and the rest of the team are designing the gameplay, game rules, and such things. Art is being built by volunteers who get rewarded with token prizes and the losing art presumably remains the property of the artist. The development contest is for developers to make a playable demo that adheres to that game design TPS has made.

    So in that light, it's a sticky situation. On the one hand it's not fair for them to withhold your rights to your IP without compensation. On the other hand, it would really suck for them if all the losing developers turn around and release re-skinned versions of their game.

    If I were them I wouldn't have this contest at all. Just hire a solid development team the "normal way" and have them build your game. I really don't see the purpose to this other than to save money and not share any equity.
     
  15. yanamal

    yanamal New Member

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    hey guys!

    I'm a bit late to the discussion* but nevertheless...
    (Like Martin, I am a volunteer member of the Advisory Board for the project. Our expertise is that we coordinate with David Perry and Rusel DeMaria(the assistant director for this game) on a semi-regular basis and just in general co-ordinate the project. According to DP, we're kinda like the producers for the game :D )

    Spore Man's pretty much got the gist of it - except that Art contest was really just a side-contest to see what cool stuff the Daz3D community could come up with, and not necessarily for getting assets for the game, though some of them may eventually end up as part of it...
    We are developing our concept art for the game collaboratively in a task-based process right now...

    Top Secret isn't just some random game Acclaim kinda-made-up and now wants someone other than regular devs it usually uses to flesh out and develop it for some reason.

    The main point of the whole Project Top Secret thing is that it is (to quote David Perry, I believe) 99.9% community-designed (that is, if David sees something going horribly wrong, he jumps in, but mostly, we do it all ourselves.). And by "community", I mean "whoever wants to join and participate". It's a really experimental thing that David initiated and Acclaim is publishing.

    Instead of having a regular developer (which we did try at first), David also started this development contest, which he thought was an appropriate match to the community-designed part (which also has a contest to it: One person from the design community will be chosen to direct Acclaim's next game...).
    The TS community - people who aren't (yet) in the game industry - design the game entirely, and indie developers develop it. From both sides, the best get recognition in the industry. The rest get (hopefully valuable) experience and some recognition too.

    That's the idea behind the contests; Anybody at all can try to participate and prove themselves, regardless of credentials - only their work matters...
    It's definitely all quite experimental and not the "established way" of doing things, but that doesn't mean it's a scam... Just means all the kinks haven't been worked out yet...

    -Yana

    ~~~
    *sidenote: so after I register, I have to wait 48 hours until being able to do most things on the forums, unless I PM an Admin, but those things that I can't do include... PMing an admin? peculiar :p
     
    #55 yanamal, Oct 17, 2007
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2007
  16. Andy

    Original Member

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    Representatives! :)

    Guys! I don't like to offend you but who cares about your PERSONAL opinions when this comes up to money/license issues.
    You can interpret their position how ever you like but this just has no any sense.

    No offense OK? ;)
     
  17. Andy

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    Because I suppose this as pure spam. So far no one of official representatives of the company haven't shown any interest to clarify the questions. So why argue here on empty basis.

    But this is probably just my IMHO anyway.
     
  18. Andy

    Original Member

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    "If I like how I spent your $10..." ;)

    I liked your idea Backov! Get me onto your Advisory Board as a volunteer member. :D
     
  19. mjuricek

    mjuricek New Member

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    this is email I just received from David Perry (after visiting this thread)

    --- David Perry <> wrote:

    The whole thing is an opportunity for new developers
    to get a shot at a publishing agreement. (To become
    PROFESSIONAL developers.)
    If you work on a game, and you don't win. You own
    EVERYTHING you did, EVERYTHING you created
    (art/engine/program/everything) You just don't own
    the COMMUNITY's GAME DESIGN.

    dp
     
  20. Backov

    Original Member

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    Except that you can't copyright a game idea, so he's wrong there.
     

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