darkbasic: a few questions

I don't want to start a flame war but the general opinion is *generally* that you should pick blitz basic instead.

 

You know, most of the games i have seen made on DarkBasic can be made more easely with GameMaker, but im not really experienced with DB, but i recommend you to try GameMaker at least, its really powerfull (and cheaper).

 

From a been there, done that stand point... I feel I have wasted a lot of time on Game Maker. I was a huge fan of the engine for quite sometime and began quite a few projects with it. Very easy to use, seems to be very powerful. Anything I wanted in my game I could find a way to get it done.

However...

Game Maker also has quite a few (BIG in my opinion) flaws. Such as, you can never predict how your game will run on someone else's machine. I've tested 3 separate projects of mine from game maker on six different computers (the oldest being 2 years old and the newest being about 4 months). And every single machine ran all of my projects in a different way. Some were playable as it was and some were not. Some were slow, some were fast, some had graphic glitches that didn't seem to make any sense... etc...

Plus another downfall that I didn't like about GM is that it isn't cross platform

Then I found BlitzMax...

I'm still testing this out (on day 20 of my 30 day trial). And so far I love it. I find it quite easy to pick up the language after spending many years coding in Basic and Visual Basic. Seems very powerful, clean, and it's cross-platform. However I haven't tested it on other computers yet but I assume I'll get the same results as on my pc, otherwise it wouldn't be so successful in the indie development market.

For fun and games and quick results I recommend game maker...

Can't be 100% sure yet but from what I hear:

If you are looking more seriously into shareware, then BlitzMax is the way to go...

Oh, and I've never really heard anything good said about DarkBasic (but I have no prior experience with that app).

 

I think you're comparing two different things: DarkBasic is for making 3D games while BlitzMax is for making 2D games.

Beyond that, i only tried a very old version of DB when a Greek magazine offered a demo of it. It was good for some (it even introduced a few of persons i know to programming ), but it was awfully slow because while i had a 3D accelerator back then, it wasn't able to use it and used software rendering.

However, at least the version i saw, wasn't for 2D games - it was only written to be for 3D stuff.

But then the version i saw was made around three or four years ago, so since may have changed since then.

Btw, my 2d game engine is interfaced to the "world" through a BASIC-like language (in other words you write games in this language instead of writing C++). I will release a demo soon (it takes time because i'm also making a game with it and a 3d game engine ), but currently i don't guarranty anything about how it'll work in different computers (however since i use SDL for portability reasons, i suspect that due to SDL's maturity it won't have much -if any- problems).

But if you're in hurry, i recommend BlitzMax. From what've seen it is very good for 2D games .

 

I. Good compared to what ? It still has bugs, but they can be worked around. Have you had a look at DarkSDK ? I recommend the DarkSDK ( also by the game creators ), there are some updates coming out which is really gonna boost its viability, eg. Mesh = LoadObject(...) ; Instead of using id's which I am not too fond of.

II. I am sure one could, if the will is there, it can be done. I have seen some games made in db pro that have been sold.

III. Yes.

I love blitmax and cannot get enough of it, it is perfect for 2d games. It has support for OpenGL and DX7, it is fast, and the language is powerful (inheritance, pointers etc... ) and is quite stable at present. The 3d module apparently will be released in the next 4 months, the gui mod is almost done too.

What other avenues have you looked at ? Have you had a look at Blitz3D ?

 

I would also recommend you try something from the Blitz family.

 

Another vote here for using a Blitz product.

 

I only recently bought Blitz3D, cant beleive it took me so long to cave in and buy it. Even though it is old, it is damn stable from what I hear, and the samples are extremely impressive. What also impresses me, is the quality of apps that people write with it.

I just hope it lasts a few more years

I will naturally be getting max3d when it gets released. BRL has one me over with their excellant support and stable software. BlitMax is a little powerhouse, I love it.

I just hope I havent made a mistake getting b3d this late, but the dx7 spec is what changed my mind, I want to reach as many users as possible.

 

If you want to make a DX9 game with shaders, shadows and stuff then you'll definately want DBPRO. The reputation it has for being buggy is no longer deserved.

You could try the DARKSDK, which is the engine, but you use it in C++. Thats very cool. It's time people stopped knocking DBPRO when they are going on outdated information.

If you're serious about 2D games then Blitzmax is the one, and if you're serious about casual 3D games, then Blitz3D is the one.

I think all 4 products I've mentioned fit different roles nicely.

 

I have a fair bit of prior experience with DarkBasic (wrote 2 complete shareware games with it),

Reasons not to use it:

1. Bad tech support (my requests for help were ignored)
2. A lot of things don't work as they should, or work at all
3. The pro edition requires DX9, and the DX7 edition is a lot slower than pro
4. Even DarkBasic Pro is EXTREMELY slow. Especially when compared to Blitz3D.

DarkBasic can (supposedly) do more 'cool' stuff than Blitz3D (shaders etc), but it does it very slowly, and quite often they won't work at all. Whilst Blitz3D can do pretty much everything you could want (except shaders), without many flaws, and can do it more than 4 times as fast.

I switched to Blitz3D and never looked back. I'm thinking about using BlitzMax in the near future, but probably just to port my B3D games to the mac. I still don't trust OpenGL on windows

 

Too true ! Ofcourse there are still some annoyances, like collision detection, but for the most part, you can easilly work around those bugs if need be ( btw the 5.8 upgrade fixed a lot of bugs, collision is still not quite right though ). Like I said though, DarkSDK is great, and is only going to get better.

Writing shaders for db pro though, is not fun.


/offtopic, Mr Cummings sir ! Were you one of the contributors/testers for b3d ? I saw your name in the credits !

 

While I agree that Blitz research's products do 'WHAT IT SAYS ON THE BOX'(with quite a few idiosynchrasies I might add!!),I have to disagree with your view of excellent support........why?

For the last 2 weeks or so,I have not been able to log into the site with my password!!I have emailed their webmaster 3 times and have not received a reply of any kind,even though they state to get back to any email within 48 hrs.

I do not know why my password doesn't work.......Am I banned?....Is it just a database screw up?.......I don't know!!!!!!

However it would be nice to receive an email with an explanation to why I can no longer log in!

Therefore screw BLITZMAX,go with PTK and 'C' or 'C++',as what I've heard Blitzmax is more like 'C' anyway!!!!!!

As for Dark basic/pro forget it!!!!From what I've read it's a bleedin' nightmare to use and riddled with bugs!!!I used the original dark basic and it was indeed full of bugs with a horrendous interface!!!(Maybe the PRO version is a bit better but I doubt it.)


All the best


Mark.

 

What address are you emailing? You should be emailing James Boyd on support@blitzbasic.com, and I've never failed to get a quick reply from him. Usually a lot less than 48 hours.

 

Yeh, because you can just load up plain old 'C' and write a 3D game as quickly as you can in Blitz3D?

The language is similar, but that is almost irrelevent, its the built in functions that actually matter.

 

Yep! I contributed a lot to Blitz3D, particularly with the 3D stuff. We had some cool things going in the early days

I also did stuff for the first ever Darkbasic retail cd too, my work is on the CD and on the cover... I guess I get around

I guess you completely didn't see DARKSDK then. Thats C++, and faster than Blitz3D by a large margin. Bad tech support? same for C++, torque, blitz... it's what forums are for. I really don't understand you. We are talking about DX9/DBPRO of course... db classic is an outdated product.

And Darkbasic pro is several times faster than Blitz3D with the new engine. It isn't faster at logic, but the 3D engine is a lot faster by a large amount. Obviously if you compare compilers, DBPRO's compiler is slower. But overall game execution in 3D will be quicker on mid range computers.

I'm not a blitz or dbpro fanboy - I have used and enjoyed both at different times in the past as well as C++, and I really am unbiased as they both satisfy different markets.

I would personally be using blitzmax over dbpro at the moment (if I had to choose) as the syntax is better than dbpro's. The biggest weakness of DB is the syntax.

 

Thanks for the link bud.I have been using the contact form on their website!!!

If that is not working then surely they need to get it sorted,so that when you fill in the form and send it,'IT ACTUALLY GETS TO SOMEONE'

No I'm not talking about blitz3d,but blitzmax!!As it stands,you can only do 2d with bmax until the 3d module comes out,therefore PTK and C for me!!!!!(Eventually).



All the best


Mark.

 

Well I last used it mid-2004, so unless there has been a major engine update since then it is definitely slower than Blitz3D, a lot slower. Micheal Reitzen and I actually directly compared Blitz3D, BlitzMax and DarkBasic (I ported his BlitzMax to DarkBasic, which was just several sprites bouncing and rotating on the screen at once) and DarkBasic Pro was many many times slower than max or 3D.

As I mentioned, I have made entire games in DarkBasic Classic, DarkBasic Pro and Blitz3D, and I know for a fact DarkBasic is very much slower. I don't see how you can say otherwise...

 

I've also completed and sold games made in Dark Basic and Blitz 3D. From a commercial standpoint, it doesn't really matter what you develop in - a Blitz game won't outsell a Dark Basic game based on the languages alone.

Having said that, I recommend Blitz 3D whether you are using it for a 3D or 2D game. It's more stable than Dark Basic, has better (but still flawed) debugging and has a more experienced and helpful user base in my opinion. DBPro looks interesting but I just can't go back to that syntax.

BlitzMax seems promising but I'm not the "early adopter" type. I'm tired of paying for the thrill of beta testing these products (Dark Basic in the old days, Omega Basic most recently) and waiting for them to become stable enough for me to actually publish something.

 

Well, if the game runs slowly, it will require a higher system spec, and DX9. That will almost certainly reduce sales to some degree.