Are 2D games dead?

Discussion in 'Game Development (Technical)' started by sofakng, Feb 5, 2009.

  1. vjvj

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    Yes, most 2D games are rendered through a 3D pipeline nowadays.

    You should check out Odin Sphere and the upcoming Muramasa for some 2D hotness. Vanillaware is noteworthy for doing unique stuff with 2D.
     
  2. cliffski

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    3d doesnt always mean cheaper art. my space game will have 2d art. I'm not paying anyone a penny to draw the underneath or sides of my spaceships, because they will never be seen. :D
     
  3. vjvj

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    No one said "always", and I'm sure you can see there's a point where 2D becomes more expensive. But if you have a fixed viewpoint and compositing doesn't get crazy like it does for Meridian, then yeah, you're still in "2D art is cheaper" territory.

    Actually it's kinda funny that you say this, because I've been working on an AI system just to take a break from graphics. It's a simplified version of the STRIPS planner used in FEAR, and I must say it's been quite rewarding to work on. I'm also hoping it will save some time in the long run, as my partner and I have done enough unit scripting in the past to learn to hate FSMs with a passion. But I generally agree with you in that most people tend to stick to one primary field of expertise (and yeah, I'll probably never touch physics... Screw that! LOL).
     
  4. mooktown

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    Is that what you kids are calling it these days? ;)

    The Flying Spaghetti Monster loves all. RAmen.
     
  5. Bad Sector

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    I would do 3D only if my modelling skills were as good as my sprite making skills (and my sprite making skills aren't much) :p.

    I'm trying to learn though.
     
  6. Acord

    Acord New Member

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    I understand he's a master.
     
  7. Nikster

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    lol, touche, that must be the best post to a thread ever, how can anyone come back to that ?

    seems the master needs to acquire some new skills.


    no, seriously :)
     
  8. mooktown

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    I'm way too old to be laughing at that but it was nicely done, bravo! :)
     
  9. Nikster

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    awww you ruined it, most people would be going WTF!?! :D
     
  10. J_Z

    J_Z New Member

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    hey all, great question and answers. Hopefully nobody minds me butting in here, as i'm new to Indie Gamer.

    I would have to say absolutely not, 2d games are not dead. I think 3d will run it's course, and in the next 10 years you will see a huge renaissance, if I may. 2d lends itself in a couple of manners in my opinion. One, is for a truly "free" art style, barred by no polygonal counts or texture resolutions, per se. Also, 2d is open to alot more fluid movements, not in the sense of actual physical animation, but the ideas behind the linework. When i work in 3d, i know it's for a purpose of rendering materials and more solid ideas. When i work in 2d, I have true freedom of expression moreover.

    Staying on course tho, yes, 2d can be more expensive to produce in one sense. I mean, to try and create something like GTA in 2d would be silliness. But, there are definitely games that don't need 3d, and actually benefit from 2d. There's definitely still alot of pixelart, but also there are 2d platformers and scrollers still being produced. Personally, I am extremely excited for the opportunity I get to create a fully 2d game, because I think that is going to be visually amazing, possibly even superior (stylistically, at least) to 3d.

    JZ
     
  11. cliffski

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    ahem.
    The first GTA games were in 2D. I still think those were the only fun ones. Now its all about shooting whores. Not really how I relax...
     
  12. Bad Sector

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    Fully agree :).
    I spent way too long with the demo of the first game but once they switched to 3D it went all "meh" :)

    although we should note here that even the first game was 3D (check video from the dos version), its just that the camera was fixed above the player and most items were sprites/quads.
     
  13. Nikster

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    meh, don't talk about GTA, I bought 4 for the PC as I thought £10 was a billy bargain, thinking my dual core 2.1 8600gt would at at least allow some kind of play, oh how very wrong I was, that billy bargin now turns into I need to invest another £600 to play it :(

    though, GTA London was a cracking game, and was developed in record time, not biased honest ;)
     
  14. jetro

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    I have to second that I fully agree with this point.

    However I think it is still very viable option to actually pre-render the 3D art to 2D images.

    Pre-rendered 3D is cheaper since artists don't need to worry about polygon counts and they can use some slow renderers as well to make a good result. Plus many 3D artists actually love the chance to make game graphics without having to tweak them to work well with real-time rendering. :)
     
  15. vjvj

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    Oh man believe me, I would love to go back to say, age 25 or 26. When I could work out once a week and still be in semi-good shape. LOL.

    Behold the Flying Spaghetti Monster! Let His teachings always be assumed by default whenever science can't explain something (oh man, look what you started :D).

    Dude, PC ports of console games are always a major crapshoot. I hear GTA IV was the worst PC port of the series, no only in terms of perf but also bugginess. What a cluster :( Last PC port I got burned on was Gears of War; I couldn't play it AT ALL (crash within 5 min every time) until I upgraded my machine... Which coincidentally is very similar to your machine. And I ain't upgrading again for a while...

    The level of recursion in this thread is legendary... :D Seriously though, check out the end of page 4 and start of page 5 in this thread to get an idea of what the GPU situation is these days... Unless of course you are referring to software renderers, in which case you are absolutely right.
     
  16. Moose2000

    Moose2000 New Member

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    That's pretty much backwards. The point of the GTA series is the openness and the ability to go anywhere and do anything.

    In the 2D ones this only went as far as stealing cars and running people over. The move to 3D opened up vastly more opportunities for finding beautiful things to do. One of my favourite moments in gaming was simply taking off into the sunset in a DC3 just as 'Free Bird' come up on the radio.

    It's not as if you get rewarded for killing prostitutes - they're no different from any other character in the game. It was in the 2D version that you got a special bonus for running over Hari Krishnas. Gouranga!
     
  17. cliffski

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    im sure the whole game isn't like that, but this is how its marketed. The earlier versions were pretty much driving games. It was basically spyhunter when you could change cars.
    (I should point out that I never read tutorials or care about game stories.)
    I loved the top down view of stuff, it was really cool.When it swapped to its current viewpoint it just looked like any other racing game to me, and that combined with a marketing campaign determined to make me feel cool about being some drug runner or cop killer or whatever.
    I've seen a mate play it for a few mins, but never bothered further, their marketing combined with the new viewpoint just put me off.
    Everyone I know says they are great games, but they just aren't for me.
     
  18. vjvj

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    Since we are talking about 2D/3D, here's a little blast from the past; when real-time 3D was still a pain in the ass. I present Westwood's Blade Runner:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQJrch-wI6Q

    Check out the dancer on the rotating stage. The animation frames are obviously pre-calculated, but the smooth rotation in the Y axis is NOT pre-calculated. Anyone wanna take a guess at how it was done? :D
     
  19. 320x240

    320x240 New Member

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    I take it she is ice skating..? Incidentally, animation of humanoid characters is one area where displaying a game in 2d usually gives better results than in 3d.
     
  20. luggage

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Isn't it just a pre-rendered animation moving round in a circle? I don't get what I'm supposed to be looking at.

    Hmm. Appears it's some kind of voxel system allegedly? May as well have not bothered and made it completely pre-rendered.
     
    #160 luggage, Feb 16, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2009

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