AAA Art/Animation at Indy Rates

Discussion in 'Music & Sound Portfolios' started by QuietMan, Dec 3, 2005.

  1. QuietMan

    Original Member

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    Site : www.quietmen.net

    This is our animation reel, showcasing animation, modelling ,rigging
    and concept art.
    *Rt. Click , Save Target as on the link below*
    www.quietmen.net/sample.mov




    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This is ouranimation reel, showcasing animation, modelling ,rigging
    and concept art.


    *Rt. Click , Save Target as on the link below*
    www.quietmen.net/sample.mov




    Staffed by industry veterans of over 10 years in the animation and gaming industry, we offer AAA graphics quality for extremely competitive rates.



    We make art and animations that will make your game shine.
    If you have ever dreamed about having Half-Life 2 quality graphics for your indie game at great rates, then you should be talking to us.

    From concept art for levels, to character rigging and animation, to next-gen art creation we provide an end-to-end solution.


    Drop us a line and we will give you a FREE estimate of what we can do for you!

    Arjun Gupte
    Email:arjun@quietmen.net
     
    #1 QuietMan, Dec 3, 2005
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2005
  2. ggambett

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    As usual, to have a reference... can you post the polygon count, texture sizes, and cost of the models present in the screenshots you posted?
     
  3. QuietMan

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    Polycounts and texture sizes vary wildly nowadays depending on the engines used, Iv tried posting a variety of models ranging from hi-poly(mllions for normal maps)to low poly(hundreds).We can do both, depending on your need.

    I can't post prices here because they are always fluctuating, depending on the project itself, our current availability etc....mail me for your art asset needs and Ill give you a free time/cost estimate asap.
     
  4. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

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    A thing I found curious is that ALL artist studio always reply in this same manner (just a few days ago another identic post, same question, identic reply), "can't post prices because they fluctuate", like if they had fear of posting a price too high/low.

    Why? I don't understand at all this.
     
  5. Savant

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    I agree. I also don't understand why poly counts can't be listed. Sure, it can be argued that different projects have different needs but what we're looking to do is to see what you can do with X polys. It's another way to judge skill and ability.
     
  6. gpetersz

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    Good question! :)
     
  7. QuietMan

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    Zbrush Head Guy 150, 000 polys
    Girl Head 8000 polys , 1024 x 1024 texture map, diffuse.
    Troll 600 polys

    As for the rest, I didnt want to overload the post with too many details, there are anough models on the website...

    Correction:rates dont fluctuate , rather our services rates are different for different tasks.

    For eg, if you wanted that model made in 3 days instead of 15 , or with 5 texture maps instead of 1, its price would be different.

    If the model is a ww3 super soldier with 3000(!) pieces stuck all over him and a gazillion maps, it would take a lot more time and effort than , say a Pac-man sprite.No two projects are alike and that is why we cant say, it costs so and so per model.

    For some jobs we work out a fixed rate model(depending on the complexity), and on some we charge by the man-hour(also negotiated).

    We do go the extra mile to accomodate our clients needs and like I said before , will provide a quote free of charge to whoever asks for it.

    We would be pleased to provide references of indie studios/people that have worked with us in the past.
     
  8. Sirrus

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    The obvious solution is to quote the price it would cost to produce the samples you have shown.

    We don't know if you are charging $300 or $3000 here, and frankly its a waste of time to contact all of these artists to get individual quotes. Most of us need to know if we are totally off base here.

    So quoting a price for each of those models, with poly counts, would be much more helpful.
     
  9. Melin

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    I have to agree with everyone here.
    As a musician, I used to do the same thing you're doing now. Whenever someone contacted me for prices, I said it depended on styles/quality/format etc, and therefore couldn't give them any price info.
    I think I lost quite a few customers just because of that, before I realized how dumb it actually is.

    If you really can not say how much every picture you've posted would cost, a ballpark figure would do. Hell, even something as vague as $200-600 would satisfy most customers.

    You keep refering to your free quote. Well, if we don't know your rates at all, we might be wasting our time writing to you, because our budget might not be even close to what you would charge for our project.

    And time is money.

    Sincerely,
    Staffan Melin
    Melin Music
     
  10. terin

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    A reason

    One of the reasons price fluctuates (and I know this because I am discussing teaming up with a AAA art studio as my latest major client) is that they are expecting indie developers to be a money source for "dead" time. The more dead time there is, the less they charge (or the more they charge, depending on how you look at it).

    But, I am against that approach anyway.

    -Joe
     
  11. Steve Ince

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    Charging you less to fill dead time could mean that your stuff is a lower priority when the better paying work comes in. If you run to a schedule you may need to bear that in mind.
     
  12. Jack Norton

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    I agree with Sirrus and Terin.
    I belive many AAA studios think about indie as "quick way to get some money". Otherwise they wouldn't wasting time and they would just work with top AAA dev teams, no?
    Or perhaps they think that spending 2-3k$ for art asset is common here... ehm... I think they're very wrong :D
     
  13. QuietMan

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    Hey guys,

    Ease up, we're just a small art studio trying to get some new clients!

    Ive been reading these boards since I joined up and there are very few art studios that quote their rates on message boards.In fact, why dont you show me a few examples to educate me?

    As before, we're happy to discuss our rates via email, just not on a public message board.

    Regards,
    Arjun Gupte
    Quiet Men Studios
     
  14. Sysiphus

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    Well, a bit of defense for Quietman. I don't know him nor how he works. So I can only defend in some general points .

    [Perhaps is the coincidence of two very "AAA teams" anouncing lately ? ;) ]

    Definitely, very few artists in any forum or other similar place do put their general prices.

    It's really not the same to do a character animation for a 3d real time toon game, with toon render and no textures, than a WWII soldier with realistic textures.

    You'd say, hey put then a price for each.

    yup, BUT... If the customer wants the toon guy do a very time consuming kind of animation (and technically is not necesary the typical criteria to stablish that) it may eat much more hours than the soldier. Or maybe not. That in my experience is only known when the details of the project are explained. Then one can estimate how many hours are needed. And so, put a price.

    Graphics for games is like this all the time, is a very complex bunch of tasks with many time consuming points, and are not easy to calculate in hours, often.

    Also, is true that in certain moments, one has enough stuff to be done so that killing the very little free time, would be done for more money than usual...well, that is market, imho...

    I recognize I have a rule: I earn good money from a job, and estimate the money per hour I earn...earning half of it, well, would not be clever.

    (BTW, till I have this job, am a bit out of the game, only up to small things and "dead times"(If that words mean what I think..)BTW, I have done slowly stuff, even per share of profits, and to me that the quality is not then compromised by that, but all the opposite as you do it with less pressure. But I suppose it depends a lot on the person)

    I mean also, is very common to act as he's doing.
     
  15. Sirrus

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    And how many of those studios do you think we actually hire? ;)

    I'm trying to help you here. I don't even need art services (especially 3d or concepting). The point is that you will get a lot more clients if we understand how much you generally cost.
    Its understandable that rates change with avaliability/size, but is it really that hard to quote a price for the art you showed us? Sure you adjust your rates based on budgets (in fact, almost every artist does this, its no big secret), but give us a range that takes into consideration the other factors. Hell, even a "We cost hundreds, not thousands" would be helpful ;)
     
  16. Savant

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    I still don't see why it isn't possible to show a model, list how long it took, how detailed the work was, and how much was charged for it.

    I understand that future art is unknown but past art isn't. It's finished and you know how much you charged for it.

    I can understand the reluctance to specify figures though in that it makes it difficult to quote people if they can look at your page and start playing the, "Yeah, but" game.
     
  17. Leper

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    A Ball-park figure is possible. Just get your leading sales guy, or the owner of your business to post here. If that's you, then go right ahead ;) I know where this guy is coming from, because when it comes to dollars: sometimes clients get stupid. I wish that wasn't true, but yeah, it is..

    I work for a contracting business, and people ask for quotes over the phone all the time. It's great when you tell someone "Well, we start at 1800.00" and then they turn around and yell until they're blue in the face because the estimate is larger than 1800 after all the facts are established.

    I work for HVAC, not computing, but I see where any studio or any business is hesitant from throwing numbers out there. The bottom line is people take those numbers seriously, and that is REGARDLESS of what you guys say, "Oh well we know its just a figure, we know how the biz works" - Yeah! I've heard that one before!! Then you get all huffy puffy when your estimate is larger than you wanted it to be!!

    Ok, maybe not YOU GUYS. So I'm sorry if I sound rough.

    Let the man give you a valid Ball-Park figure (which means a rough estimate from X to Z) and maybe a "Starting at..." or something like that.

    Prices fluctuate. and if this guy is running a business, he has to pay for overhead, for multiple payroll accounts, and that means his time might cost more than you would imagine.

    I pay a guy $20.00 an hour it actually costs me $40.00 an hour because I pay his taxes too (in america both parties pay the same amount in taxes) plus you gotta pay for insurance, etc, etc, the listy goes on and on until we have to charge $100.00 an hour to even make a profit. Try to explain this to a client and they get uptight and paranoid. People dont know or even realize or even fathom how much it costs to do business, espeicially if you are doign it legally and are established. The company I work for requres 40,000 in revenue a month to keep the doors open, that doesnt count the cost of parts and additional labor either. That means we have to charge a lot more than (just 10% higher) and idiots dont get that.

    Ok I'm venting a bit, but its the hollidays and sometimes customers are total idiots. Not you guys :) I hope! I just hope you understand why sometiems its not a good idea to "throw a number out there" - why dont you just pm the guy if you're interested?
     
  18. JoeMaru

    Indie Author

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    I for one would ask that you respect the fact that he does not want to quote prices and if that means it is a waste of your time, then move on.

    Most of the artists I know and work with that have done and can do pro quality work are not hurting for work. I also hate to see these sorts of thread devolve into a 'you charge too much' war and a bunch of unsolicited advice about how to run a contracting business.

    If someone not posting rates makes you not want to contact them, that is not necessarily a bad thing. When I was doing this, I did not like responding to every email that came in. I preferred to have only serious clients contact me. Keep this in mind as you offer advice.

    As for why someone does not offer quotes. my own experience doing this is that polygon count and price are not linked in any meaningful way. a 1500 poly character may take way longer and be much harder to make than a 5000 poly character, and most of that is the particular needs of the design and the client (is the client really demanding? is the client happy with what you come up with on the first pass?)

    For contractors I deal with, I work out what I pay per peice on an artist by artist basis on a piece by peice basis. My own needs are different, and I am often happy to pay what many would consider a premium rate if the artist can consistently deliver what I need without taking up much of my time to micromange him/her.

    So, the reason why you don't often see price quotes from artists for a particular piece of work is because 'similar' work is often not all that similar when it comes down to actually doing the work. Educating the client is sometimes part of this process.. and this also takes time. For a more sophisticated client, the rates can actually be lower as the workflow and contract negotiations are already established.. both sides know what is expected for the amount negotiated.

    I tend to work with artists that I have experence with. If I pay out a certain amount, I know what I am going to get.

    Many of my friends who do contract work have a short list of clients and get a lot of repeat work.

    In many of these situations (and note that I am not speaking for the original poster) the addition of one good client based on a post like this makes it a worthwhile undertaking.

    My goal here is to try to shed some light on what some people perceive as possibly some grand conspiracy perpetrated by artists. There is no conspiracy.. it is just doing good business and not throwing out a number that you will be expected to be held to as if it were a quote.

    the same final art could cost $1000 or $10000 depending on the client and the way the project is run.. if the requirements are clear, then it might be cheap.. if the final art is arrived at by a rambling exploration of multiple iterations it might be expensive. If the client is satisfied with the artists interpretation of a vague description, then it may be a very cheap model for the client (and fun for the artist).

    Location should also be taken into consideration. If I contract someone in foreign country, it can be cheaper (or more expensive if they live in the EU). The same work can be gotten from an ex-soviet state for much cheaper than in the US.. certain types of work, including concept and character work (particularly animation) is hard to find anywhere if you need a certain level of quality.

    A note.. it is considered poor form to state how much you were paid for a particular job for a previous client. If the work was done on contract for someone, it is something that transpired between the two parties, and it frankly none of anyones business but the parties involved. If an artist I dealt with posted the details of the transaction on a public board.. it is unlikley that they would recieve work from me again.

    As someone who contracts and approves contracts, I don't need to be arguing with a contractor why a certain amount I am willing to pay them is different than what I payed someone else. An artist that I am not familiar working with will not get the same rate as someone I have used in the past and who has consistently given me what I needed at a fair price.

    so, lighten up on this guy please.
     
  19. Sysiphus

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    I agree with Joe.
     
  20. Chris Evans

    Moderator Original Member

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    Yeah, Joe beat me to it.

    A lot of people take a public quote as their own personal quote. Then they get upset if they're given a higher quote that the public sample quote. I use contracters a lot and I have no problem with contacting them for quotes. If you're really serious about getting AAA art in your game, then it shouldn't trouble you too much to shoot off a few e-mails. I think it's in everyone's best interest to get a quote tailored for their project and of course always negotiate.

    If you want WYSIWYG models/textures then go to Turbosquid.
     

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