Platypus 2? Hmm...

[Andy]

Anyone has any comments on this?

http://www.realarcade.com/game?rsrc=...eid=platypusii

Who was publisher? Who was developer?..

[Agent 4125]

I heard it was always intended to be a trilogy.

[Fost]

Please: someone tell me Anthony has something to do with this. I don't think I can stand to hear any more bad news surrounding this game...

[Bmc]

Not that I see how it matters but ...
publisher = Idigicon
developer = Citric Games (same guy who made Nux)

[Fost]

Originally Posted by Bmc

Not that I see how it matters but ...

It matters, because anyone associated with it who isn't Anthony (excluding Retro64 for apparently being pretty cool), is so low they would likely steal the turds from your arse.

[Sakura Games]

They sux, sure... but that's exactly what happens if you sell your IP. Is almost like selling your soul, after all

[Bmc]

Originally Posted by Fost

It matters, because anyone associated with it who isn't Anthony (excluding Retro64 for apparently being pretty cool), is so low they would likely steal the turds from your arse.

Not really. Legally Idigicon owns the rights to the IP, it sucks for Anthony but why wouldn't they capitalize on the game's success ... and I doubt the developer has much knowledge if any of the situation. I also wouldn't be surprised if they got the same shit deal Anthony got.

Basically, I'm sure he is just trying to put this behind, and if he's not he should be.

[Escapee]

I thought it was made by Anthony

[Fost]

Originally Posted by Bmc

Not really. Legally Idigicon owns the rights to the IP, it sucks for Anthony but why wouldn't they capitalize on the game's success ... and I doubt the developer has much knowledge if any of the situation.

That's where we'll have to disagree then. Basically, in my book - Idigicon = opportunist ****s, and anyone who touches this ip now is a flagrant idiot.

Anthony has however, always been far more professional than I when talking about this matter.

[Andy]

So now I'm wondering what they did in the game? Just stolen all the graphics and changed the placement of them in another order. Anthony?...

I just HAVE to take a look into the game itself now.

[Mike Boeh]

I was not involved in the project, but from what I can tell, about half of the graphics are from the original game, but many of them have been channel-swapped (in an rgb image, switching the red and green color channels to be a different color)

Oh, and... Idigicon owns the IP, and making a sequel would seem to be a logical thing to do. The original was a hit and they're just capitalizing on the opportunity.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Retro64

...about half of the graphics are from the original game, but many of them have been channel-swapped...

Yeah. They have spent the EFFORTS on this.
Not to mention that the orginal artist was probably trying to choose good (correct?) color combination of different elements when was creating the graphics.

As for owning IP and another BS... well... even if they have the rights this doesn't look for me like they use them by appropriate way.

Just my two cents of course,

[Applewood]

Interesting. They own the IP to a successful game but it would be inappropriate for them to do a sequel ?

A developer paid to do it is somehow immoral ?

Bugger me, I see I've still got a lot to learn about indie business!

C134r1y t3h 5uxx0rz....

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Applewood

Bugger me, I see I've still got a lot to learn about indie business!

Paul, I don't think this has any connection to indie business. I complain as a customer who purchased the previous game.

Wrong forum? Yeah, perhaps. But I made the mistake because this appeared im my Inbox today in Real's NEWSletter.

[KNau]

It sucks but I'd have to say that I'd do the same thing. Everyone in the Blitz Basic community knew that Idigicon's M.O. was to take advantage of newbie developers by buying out their IP for criminally low sums and then pimping the games in perpetuity. For anyone who is even remotely familiar with the company their actions are no surprise.

The scamming worked both ways, though, since 99% of the Blitzers who supplied games to Idigicon produced unsaleable crap that has since been expunged from their catalog. I don't blame the company for riding a winner.

[Leper]

Originally Posted by Retro64

Oh, and... Idigicon owns the IP, and making a sequel would seem to be a logical thing to do. The original was a hit and they're just capitalizing on the opportunity.

Really who needs to say more? Still sucks how everything turned out for Anthony, but I'm sure Anthony wont let anything like this happen again. Let it be a lesson for us all...

[Grey Alien]

heh, the other week I put platypus on www.greyaliengames.com and said "by Squashy Software" (hyperlinked) and within 2 days I got an email saying I had to change it to Idigicon! Which I did cos I had no choice...

[Fost]

Originally Posted by Grey Alien

Which I did cos I had no choice...

You've got plenty of choices - tell them to **** off - what are they going to do about it?. Say the game was created by Squashy Software - that would be accurate. Alternatively, don't carry the game, it's not like any money goes to Anthony. Remove the funds from scum and they'll cease to operate. Whilst it's sad for the game, I'm sure everyone will be behind Cletus when it's out to make up for it.

[Dan MacDonald]

I <3 Fost.

[Sirrus]

Could have at least contracted Squashy to do the sequel instead of the Nux guy...

[Dylan McCall]

Those are exactly my thoughts, Sirrus.

If Platypus was such a success, it was probably - bad contract or not - thanks to the efforts of Anthony.
So what maniac decides that, to ride that success, they'll get someone else to do it?

Maybe Anthony knows something that we don't...

[the2bears]

Just look at the shite in the screenshots... they're re-using graphics from the original and rendering on top of that. They'll not get a penny from me, nor a word or link.

Bill

[Lerc]

Of course idigi con are legally allowed to do this. And we've all heard more than a few times that Anthony shouldn't have sold his IP. To me this is a moral issue. In this particular round of the platypus saga I think it's the customers who are being hurt. It's not much different from the Non-Indie game industry. IP is always getting shipped off to other companies to do knock off games. The result is usually something that is awful. People get sucked into buying by marketing and the hope that it's good as the thing that built the IP up in the first place.

Customers probably want a Platypus 2. and they probably want it made by the creater of the original. You usually only get a chance to rip people off once. First round was the dev, second round is the players. It's not a great long term strategy.

Here's a question.

How many of you told Anthony not to sell the IP before platypus had been made.

[Sakura Games]

Originally Posted by Lerc

How many of you told Anthony not to sell the IP before platypus had been made.

Don't know because the game is very old, correct? probably anthony wasn't even frequenting dexterity forums at those times, otherwise he would have got different advice.

About the moral aspect: surely idigicon can do that legally etc. but how many other devs are going with them in future after this? I think that publishers who always look only at the business site and not at the "moral" (i.e. build good relationships!) will inevitably fail over time

[PoV]

Originally Posted by Dylan McCall

Maybe Anthony knows something that we don't...

Yeah, hasn't anyone downloaded the game and checked the credits yet?

[Lerc]

Originally Posted by Sakura Games

Don't know because the game is very old, correct? probably anthony wasn't even frequenting dexterity forums at those times, otherwise he would have got different advice.

That's sort of my point. Someone starting out doesn't necessarily know the pitfalls, or know where the good forums are.

For all the advice that gets thrown around on what should have been done, it's usually being given to people who, by the very fact they are hanging around in the right places to see the advice are probably the ones who don't need it.

The thing that bothers me is that this will happen again. It'll happen to someone who hasn't yet made a game. They won't yet be known to any of us but they'll make something great and get screwed over.

As an aside to this... something that a number of people have noted is that this happens most to the truly creative ones. If ideas¹ come freely then they don't view them in the same way as uncreative people. For some the idea is a rare commodity that must be jealously guarded until ever last little drop can be squeezed from it. For others it doesn't need to be that way because the next idea is not far away. They aren't as protective of it as they might be if they realized that others don't see things the same way.

I don't really know if this is how it went for Anthony and Platypus. This is more of a general observation rather than specific to this instance. But Anthony's comments on copyrights would suggest that he's not in the 'Ideas are commodities' camp.

[this is now officially a ramble, something occurred to me as I was typing]

It just occurred to me², Some artists do jealously guard their ideas, but that is like the polar opposite of the way that ideas are seen by people who try to squeeze the most out of each idea. They guard the ownership of the idea not because it can be used for revenue or similar, but to protect the idea itself. The idea is the end not the means. Losing ownership may end up with the idea being diluted, or worse, corrupted. This comes down to the personality of the creator I think. Some are bothered by works based on their ideas, others can read the erotic furry fanfic based upon their work with an amused smile.

1, I'm really talking more than just ideas here. It's the entire creative process but I'm not sure of the appropriate term (actually if the english language lacks a good term for what I'm trying to say it's probably symptomatic of the problem)

2. see

[Anthony Flack]

I appreciate the sentiments, people. But yes indeed, I did sign the original contract a long time ago (seven years? Eight?) - not only was it before I had met any other indie authors, but it was also before I had become aware of the downloadable games industry (such as it was in those pre-portal days) at all, if you can believe it. Heck, I'd only just recently gotten connected to the internet myself. The game was initially a CD-ROM release, remember.

Really, the most surprising thing to me is how this little game is still kicking around so many years later. But like the original game, the wheels were set in motion for this sequel a long time ago. Idigicon are certainly within their rights to make one, and I have long expected to see it appear. So I feel like I've already been through all the motions, so to speak.

Certainly I do give a lot of thought to what the customers will think; that was a large part of what made me put the extra effort in with the original game all that time ago. But you know, this isn't a CD-ROM in a shop any more; and in the end this sequel will live or die by the shareware ethic - try-before-you-buy. If people like it then that's well and good; if they don't then they can leave it.

Still, I daresay everyone involved would agree that the situation up to this point could have been handled better. But it's all old news now, based on long-passed decisions, and I'm looking forward to the future. Really, I have effectively been inactive in the games business for several years, but they have been productive and busy years for me in other ways. But I'm hoping to be back with a bang soon enough. The fact that Platypus still has legs so many years after I made it is encouraging at least, and maybe it too will receive a fitting epilogue one day. I still have affection for it; all in all it wasn't too bad for a first game...

Anyway, don't feel bad on my behalf; I'm feeling quite cheerful today.

[H&K]

This is what buisness is like. Activistion tried to do it to Sid Myers.
Look at the XCom series, the Gallops sold the rights, but were commistioned to write the sequal (DreamLand).
Year and a half into development, they were sacked and development moved to the Czech Republic and three new games were produced, these games had the rights to the "UFO" title. The Gallops had to go back to before the Xcom series and remake "Laser Squad".

[Sakura Games]

Happens to everyone isn't anymore an excuse. Happened to Anthony because was inexpert at those times. But I really want to see someone, at least from this forum's readers, to sell the whole IPs. They should be quite desperate and very unsure of the quality of their game!

[H&K]

I wasnt suddjesting that it was an excuse, I was pointing out that dealing with any business is like swimming with sharks, or hand feeding lions. Just cos they are smiling doesnt mean that they are being nice to you.

When ever you deal with them, you have to assume that anything you are not sure about, will be in there favour.

My main point is that its Anthonys fault for not knowing this, (Or more probably, he did know this, and its just third party moaning on his behalf). To say a company should give anyone more money, unless its contractaly obbliged to is untenable.

Its the sellers responsibility to know how much the product is worth, and if they accept a deal, thats it. Done dusted. To say "Never sell the rights to the IP", is also only possible it someone is willing to buy it without the rights, and if they are not, then what do you do? Market it yourself?

I agree that in this situation it would have been morraly better for Anthony to have been approched to make the sequal.

In the words of Ricky Gervais, "I dont care if 'The American Office' is anygood or not. I sold them the rights"