The Cursed Wheel - game assets at sale

[ManuelFLara]

Since I heard about the casual market and the money it moved I’ve been willing to make a game for this market and see how it performed, so I did it. In late April 2005 I released The Cursed Wheel but it hasn’t been as succecssfull as I thought at all.

I spent around $4,000 in the game and the company (web, logo, etc.) and after all this time I haven’t even earned my money back, and even that I think the game has serious potential and could sell well, I’m very tired of working on it and I don’t have the will or knowledge necessary to promote it as it deserves in order to sell that well. So I’ve decided to sell it to the highest bidder and earn at last my money back and maybe some additional profit.

I haven’t completely forsaken the idea of making a living off making games, but I’ve decided to try it making games I’m completely passionate about, not just some puzzle decided to an audience I do not belong to.

What does this purchase include?
- Source code of the. The game uses the PTK library so I guess you’ll have to buy a license ($215) in order to commercially distribute the game.
- Art and sound assets made by freelance professionals.
- All explotation and distribution rights for the game and its intellectual property.


NOTE: If anyone’s interested in buying the whole company assets (website, customer database, etc.) we could talk about that, too. Since my next game won’t be anything close to this one in terms of audience, I don’t care much about the domain, traffic or company brand name.

Sales data for the game (April 2005 to present):
The Cursed Wheel (For Mac): 40 sales – $784.65 income
The Cursed Wheel (For PC): 11 sales – $213.64 income
Total net profit: $589.25

That’s direct and affiliate sales only. The game has been published at Big Fish Games, Reflexive and Gamefiesta, but only the first one has made me make some decent money. However, the three combined do not even reach the direct sales profit.

If anyone’s interested, has any kind of question or wants to make an offer, you can contact me at the following address or just PM me if you prefer:

manuelfl@funmangames.com
Manuel F. Lara, FunMan Games

Thank you

WARNING: The Cursed Wheel may actually be a cursed game.

[cliffski]

I'm suprised theres no replies yet. If this was a strategy or sim game, I'd definitely be interested. In the long term, this could be a reasonable investment. For a puzzle game, it might just be priced slightly too high. I'd certainly stick with this game if I were you.

[GBGames]

I am inclined to agree with cliffski. It's only been out for about a year. If you're tired of it, that's fine, but I'd argue that you need to nurture your games to help them grow. The revenue you listed is quite a chunk of change, even if it hasn't recovered your cost.

As for why no one responded, I imagine because everyone who would respond would be posting privately rather than make business propositions publicly.

[Mark Fassett]

I don't understand why anyone wants to sell games that haven't succeeded in a year. Yes, you haven't made a whole ton of money, but it sounds like you've learned some things, and unless it's not selling any copies at all, I can't see what the problem is with just letting it sit there making you some extra cash each month.

I guess if you can get a couple thousand out of the deal, though, it might be worth doing. I just hate giving my stuff away

[ManuelFLara]

Originally Posted by cliffski

For a puzzle game, it might just be priced slightly too high

Well, I haven't set a fixed price. Yeah, I'd be glad to recover my full investment, but I prefer $2k than nothing, I've just said the highest bidder (considering it's not too low).

Originally Posted by Mark Fassett

I don't understand why anyone wants to sell games that haven't succeeded in a year. Yes, you haven't made a whole ton of money, but it sounds like you've learned some things, and unless it's not selling any copies at all, I can't see what the problem is with just letting it sit there making you some extra cash each month.

See, it's actually not selling at all now When it was released it sold one a day or two, just for a week or two. Then sales gradually plummeted like a rock after a month, to virtually zero sales a month, only one from time to time. It's obviously because of a lack of traffic. I haven't updated the site in several months, so that's no surprise. It's been 50 sales in a year, after all. So it's working on it, improve it and promote it accordingly; or just selling it all together, which is what I'm trying to do. Not just because of a lack of will, but also a lack of time.

[Davaris]

WARNING: The Cursed Wheel may actually be a cursed game.

Some games are cursed you know. I made one as well.

[Graeme]

ManuelFLara: I think Cliffski might have meant that the price you are offering the game to regular consumers is too high, not the price of buying the creative rights and source code to the game.

[cliffski]

Yes thats what I meant

[GBGames]

Originally Posted by ManuelFLara

So it's working on it, improve it and promote it accordingly; or just selling it all together, which is what I'm trying to do. Not just because of a lack of will, but also a lack of time.

Which is a fine decision to make. Slightly off-topic, what are your plans after you sell the game?

[Davaris]

I tried running your game and it froze.

I ran the driver update program and it said:

Installed Video Card:
NVIDIA RIVA TNT2 Model 64/Model 64 P

Advice:
Consider replacing it with a Radeon or Geforce for playing OpenGL games.

Oh well. Perhaps this is part of your sales problem? I haven't had any problems playing PopCap games, perhaps you should look into using their framework.

[svero]

Well, for my part I was immediately interested and had a look. With some games I look at them and I immediately know how I'd go about fixing them or what I'd change to make them sell. If this had been one of those games then I'd probably have entertained an offer. In the end though. I just felt that there'd be too much work here. It didn't seem like something that only needed a little tweaking the way some games do. I didn't immediately have a clear idea of what I'd change to make it more fun.

[Phil Steinmeyer]

Agreed - I played this game back when it came out, and the play mechanic seemed weak. Cleaning up the game wouldn't change the sales results, IMO.

[ManuelFLara]

Originally Posted by Graeme

ManuelFLara: I think Cliffski might have meant that the price you are offering the game to regular consumers is too high, not the price of buying the creative rights and source code to the game.

Well, I haven't thought about tweaking since it's the standard price for casual games, and now that I barely get any traffic I don't think it'll help sales at all.

Originally Posted by GBGames

Slightly off-topic, what are your plans after you sell the game?

I'm working on a GUI-based management game, since that's the kind of game I really enjoy to play (well, actually I prefer them with a nice isometric visual interface but that would take me years with the amount of free time I can spend on it).

Originally Posted by Davaris

I tried running your game and it froze. [...]Perhaps this is part of your sales problem?

It may be. Before announcing the game here (way back), I did it in another (spanish) developers forum and some people had similar problems, but I eventually fixed them all. However, after release some people have complained about them too, and even after some emails I haven't got to know how to find a solution, since not having the graphic card that gives those problems is a big handicap to do so.

Originally Posted by svero

I didn't immediately have a clear idea of what I'd change to make it more fun.

If it's the game concept that's broken then it doesn't matter if you tweak it or improve it, is that want you mean? You can't polish a turd

[Andy]

Manuel! May I?

I'm just wondering to know - where and how have you managed to spend that huge $4000 on such game and website (if I assumed properly)? Could you please divide it on separated expenses?

I suppose your experience and your vision on the problem in general could help a lot to guys who is just starting in the area. Even after this is not success story - you have gone the road and you know where and what wasn't done properly and what could be improved.

REM: And sure thing I wish you good luck with your attempt to sell it.

Thanks,

[svero]

Originally Posted by ManuelFLara

If it's the game concept that's broken then it doesn't matter if you tweak it or improve it, is that want you mean? You can't polish a turd

I think the concept may just be broken. It's hard to say really. Maybe it could be made to work. Some games, when I look at them, I know right away what I'd change to make it my own or how I would have approached it differently.(for better or worse) With this one there just wasn't any one specific problem or direction that jumped out at me.

[Sharpfish]

When I played it (when it was released) I too felt that there was something missing in the fun stakes. It seemed adequate enough in production though nothing jumped out as being particularly special. It felt like a "bare minimum" product (as I call them). Which is certainly better than the tons of "not even minimum" games out there that just look bad. Your game didn't look bad.

The gameplay however left me apathetic. I felt it was more an interactive mechanic rather than a game. It sold some so it felt ok to a small number of people. I just think as was mentioned above it was one of those concepts that probably should have been dumped along the way, and the gameplay enhanced with another system (using the same assets).

I do recall reading on your blog(?) that you said yourself you disliked making the game? that you had no interest in that kind of game and it was a clinical production to attempt to appeal to the kind of audience we are constantly told is out there. I think because of this you didn't go the extra mile to pack fun into the game because you were possibly weary of working on it.

Really a combination of a few things that I'm sure you already know. At face value, aesthetically, the game certainly looks better than "a bad game" but if it isn't fun then that's the core problem. And I know it's not easy trying to make things fun when you are not just copying the best sellers, prototypes come and go, what looks good on paper is boring in practice etc.

Whatever you do next, if you heart is in it then your game will be much better for it no matter what genre. Good luck!

[lakibuk]

Originally Posted by Andy

where and how have you managed to spend that huge $4000 on such game and website

$4000 is not much if you work with a professional artist. A couple of sprites and the money is gone...

[ManuelFLara]

Originally Posted by Andy

I'm just wondering to know - where and how have you managed to spend that huge $4000 on such game and website (if I assumed properly)? Could you please divide it on separated expenses?

The problem in doing that is I've said some times (here and in other places) which artist I worked with, so I don't want to say how much he charged me, but he's a very professional and well known artist around here by several developers.

Although I won't say how much I spend on each thing, I can say what stuff I paid for:

Game Art (actually the artist I talked about before did me about 90% of the artwork, and then I contracted another one to do some last minute stuff)
Game Sound and Music, also by a professional game music composer
Company website
Company logo
Some software I eventually used or not (Torque2D, PTK, FogBugz & BlitzMax if I recall correctly)
Around a year of web hosting at $19.95 a month
Around a year of Subversion hosting at $19.95 a month

I can't remember anything more at the moment.. I've just added all that and it's in the $3k - $3.5k range, so not $4k but close.

And yeah, I know I spent way too much on something I wasn't sure was fun enough. And if something's not fun enough you can't make it sell much more even if you throw piles of money worth of art into it.

Originally Posted by Sharpfish

I do recall reading on your blog(?) that you said yourself you disliked making the game? that you had no interest in that kind of game and it was a clinical production to attempt to appeal to the kind of audience we are constantly told is out there. I think because of this you didn't go the extra mile to pack fun into the game because you were possibly weary of working on it.

I also think that's was the main problem. I didn't have much fun playing this game, but I don't either playing most casual games, so how could I know this one was crap? That's why now I'm doing a kind of game I truly enjoy to play.

[Mark Fassett]

Originally Posted by ManuelFLara

I also think that's was the main problem. I didn't have much fun playing this game, but I don't either playing most casual games, so how could I know this one was crap? That's why now I'm doing a kind of game I truly enjoy to play.

And in my opinion, it makes it hard to even try to sell it to people because you think it's crap. I don't care much for the arguments about clones and casual games and in it only for the money type stuff. But if you don't like playing casual games, and you don't understand them, and you don't like making them, you have no business trying. The people I know that are successful at them, like them. Make what you love, and at the end of the day, even if you still don't sell anything, at least you'll like what you've made.

Personally, I don't see $3500 as that big of a loss - you made back $1500 of that or so. How much did you spend going to college for a year? Look back on what you learned... I bet it was worth spending the money.

[ManuelFLara]

Originally Posted by Mark Fassett

Personally, I don't see $3500 as that big of a loss - you made back $1500 of that or so. How much did you spend going to college for a year? Look back on what you learned... I bet it was worth spending the money.

That's true, I've learned a lot in the process and made a lot of mistakes I won't do in the future (I hope!), so it has been a very enlightening experience, that's for sure, and I'd do it again, although I'd probably try a different concept or make it more appealing before releasing it.

[GBGames]

I'll offer up what I think is missing from the game: responsiveness.

The tutorial says that you don't have to let go of the mouse button to match the colors, but I found that the balls wouldn't match as quickly as I would like.

For instance, I would rotate the inner wheel, and a ball on the outside would sometimes drop into an open space immediately, but sometimes it didn't move for half a second.

So it may be that the game seemed slightly inconsistent enough that no one could put their finger on what was wrong but they still felt something was wrong. I am, of course, just guessing, so I could be way off.

[ManuelFLara]

Originally Posted by GBGames

I'll offer up what I think is missing from the game: responsiveness. [...] For instance, I would rotate the inner wheel, and a ball on the outside would sometimes drop into an open space immediately, but sometimes it didn't move for half a second.

That's because the gems fall "by ticks", instead of immediately or in a flawlessly manner. Why?
- Being by ticks, with a little practice you can make tricky wheel moves and match gems that would drop if they were constantly "falling" to inner wheels.
- If the falling from one wheel to another was immediate, it would seem odd when a gem reached the outer wheel (it'll drop down to the smallest one instantly).
- The desired option would be a smooth movement, like when gems fall from the pipe down to the wheels, but then there would be a short time (during transition from one wheel to another) when the user couldn't rotate the wheels, otherwise the gems that were in between two wheels (falling) would look weird.

Maybe a mistake I did with this game is designing a game (and its control) that offers too much possibilities and thinks too much on people interested in "mastering" the game, instead of just making something a lot more simple to use (bejeweled doesn't offer much flexibility in how you move the gems along, for example).

[Bmc]

you know, with a little re-design I bet you could do better with this.

thoughts/ideas for you or anyone interested in buying this

1) get rid of all the fluff modes, just have story and endless/marathon and let the player choose which they want to play from the main menu, without having to click the play button and then choose.

2) get rid of the cheesy ready, go sound clip. it's sounds like it belongs in Varmintz, you need something more "godish" and forboding.

3) have some type of progress map

4) have different backgrounds (a new one every 5 levels or so)

5) have some things animated in the background (for example maybe a spider/insect or two on the wall level)

6) completely scrap the in-game ui, center the wheel so you can change it up every once and awhile (instead of always having just 3 layers, 4, 5 and maybe 6) also
some layers of the wheel could be rubblish (have missing chunks where no gem could go) it would add variety and some difficulty to later levels (think along the lines of incomplete spider webs in Rainbow web)

7) fix the gems up, give them something else besides color to differentiate them. a pattern/texture/symbol or whatever

8) make the wheel always full of gems, matches shouldn't automatically be made while the user is rotating a wheel

9) new goal of game, instead of trying to empty the wheel, you are trying to destroy the guy in the middle. when you match any group of gems (not 3 in a row. any gems that touch) they shoot at him

10) he spits gems out of his mouth to fill empty spots

11) the wheel will rotate back to it's position if you don't make a group when moving it (like the swap mechanic in bejeweled etc)... it would almost make it like playing with a rotary phone, which is kind of enjoyable if you ask me

12) highligh a wheel section when the mouse is over it and make it stand out some high when it's selected/clicked on.

13) center section: if I click on the core I can;t move the wheel yyet when I move the layer over it, it moves. either make it so the core doesn't move at all and make it clickable, letting the player move the layer that surrounds it.

14) fix the input system, allow the current one but also... if the user clicks a wheel piece and drags left that piece should rotate clockwise, if the user drags right it should rotate counter clockwise.

15) make the center guy more animated. make him taunt the player or something, and show him getting destroyed as the player gets closer and closer to the goal of destroying him. also maybe have a new face in the center every so many levels.

16) if you are going to have a timer it would make sense to have it be the outher edge of the circle. or in the center core

17) when you finally destroy the head in the center it would explode and fling treasure out, the player would need to click the treasure to grab it (just like you do when a players gets a combo, but more)

18) the gems seem to jiggle when moving the wheels, it looks bad and should be fixed.

19) need a menu button in the in-game gui allowing player to change options during game play.

there's probably alot more that could be done as well

[Phil Steinmeyer]

Regardless of whether the game COULD be better (and enough better to be a hit, rather than just limping along, sales-wise), it seems unlikely to me that portals would 'relaunch' the game unless it were almost completely redone. And if you're going to completely redo it, why buy somebody else's game - you could start from scratch and make your own.

[Bmc]

Originally Posted by Phil Steinmeyer

Regardless of whether the game COULD be better (and enough better to be a hit, rather than just limping along, sales-wise), it seems unlikely to me that portals would 'relaunch' the game unless it were almost completely redone. And if you're going to completely redo it, why buy somebody else's game - you could start from scratch and make your own.

unless of course the codebase would facilitate the changes necessary with very little work. the only portal I remember this being on is Big Fish and Reflexive so it would still be possible to get it on Real etc than if it did well there back on Big Fish and Reflexive.

With that being said I coundn't see anyone wanting to pay more than a couple hundred dollars for what's being offered. Unless of course he also offers a certain amount of hours of work to make requested changes

[ManuelFLara]

@Bmc: Yeah, I also made a list of what I'd need to change in order to make it sell well (although your lists includes some good points I hadn't thought about), but as I said it's not just a matter of not wanting to do it, but also that I don't have enough time or money (to pay new art) to do those changes.

With that being said I coundn't see anyone wanting to pay more than a couple hundred dollars for what's being offered.

There's also the possiblity of offering it at a low price or even free to gather traffic, as some people have showed interest in doing (by PM).

Unless of course he also offers a certain amount of hours of work to make requested changes

Well, I can't guarantee any amount of hours of work in order to implement new features, but of course I can provide some help in understanding the source code.

[puggy]

would it be possible to improve the game, (how it looks, how it plays etc etc).

Using the base code, some of the artwork/sound etc etc and making a big improvement in some area's so it is differrent to the first version, you could market "The Cursed Wheel 2". On top of that, half the price of the first version.

Now market the second version as best you can, if people think the second version is priced too high they may consider buying the first version and people who bought the first version may also buy the second. As your using the base code etc etc from the first game it will lower your costs to make the second version.


---
forgot to mention, the game running problem, have you tried puting the opengl dll on the game? I'm doing a 3d viewer in opengl and found that it didn't work too well on some cards, even mine after i updated the drivers for the card. Adding the dll makes it run in software mode which fixed the problem.

[Tom Gilleland]

"The Cursed Wheel" is a really bad name. For the demigraphic that would buy this game you need something positive, fun, or exotic, intiriguing, mysterious. "Cursed" is just negative. The name of a game is really important for the customer to decide to even look at it.

Tom

[Bmc]

Originally Posted by Tom Gilleland

"The Cursed Wheel" is a really bad name. For the demigraphic that would buy this game you need something positive, fun, or exotic, intiriguing, mysterious. "Cursed" is just negative. The name of a game is really important for the customer to decide to even look at it.

Tom

it's not that bad, not exactly catchy but not awful

[cliffski]

I agree that 'cursed' isnt a good word in a game of this sort, although im certainly no casual games expert.

One of the benefits of a non-portal sales strategy, is you can relaunch your game whenever you like. The portals are often very weird about this. Real STILL sell Starlines INC, yet refused to take Starship Tycoon, despite it being the same game with a higher conversion rate.

One thing I do know, it's way easier to improve a poorly selling game than to start again purely from scratch. Take a few months out from it, then go back and look at it again. You'll be amazed what you see needs doing once you take 'time out' from one of your games. I could have ditched Starlines, but I pulled it apart and stuck it back together. It now sells around 20 copies a month.